Questions about half-dragon template

[Skaros]

First, what is the ECL for the template listed at in the various sources? I understand there have been updated listings of ECLs since the DMG came out. What are you using it at in your campaign, if you've ever had it applied?

Second, on its abilities:

HD increase: Does this only apply to "monster levels"...as in, if I were creating an Ogre half dragon, it would only increase the HD of each of the "Ogre levels". Or does it apply to all future class levels taken by the character as well?

Size: Does the template increase the size of the character at all? If applied to a kobold, does the kobold-half-dragon remain "small"?

Bite & Claw: Does the chracter gain any sort of natural attack routine, or are the byte or claw attacks just considered unarmed attacks using the character's BAB, and possibly two weapon fighting if desired?

Skills: Do the 6 skill points listed per hid die apply in any way to a character....say a lvl 1 kobold with the template applied?

Thanks for the help and discussion!

Skaros

 

[Soldarin]

ECL +3 (+4 in dragon IIRC).

HD increase affects monster HD.

Size remains the same (unlike the dragon disciple PrC).

Yes, main bite, 2 claws secondary (see ogre example in MM).

Skills apply ONLY to monster HD (ie monster skill points). So no, it doesn't apply to the kobold (HD replaced by class HD).

 

[Crothian]

For the best half dragon template go here.

http://harineldermage.tripod.com/d20/althalf-dragon.html

 

[Skaros]

Hmm. So lets take a human half-gold dragon fighter as an example.

He'd have the following:

Normal human stats modifed by: +8 STR, +2 CON, +2 INT, +2 CHA
No hit die change at all.
No size change.
No flight ability.
Darkvision, Low Light vision, immunities, including Fire

Natural attack routine: bite, claw, claw = 1d6/1d4/1d4...I still question this.

+4 Natural AC bonus
Special weapon: 6d10 cone of fire, oncer per day (avg. 30 dmg)

And ECL either +3 or +4 depending on the DM.

Anyone see any problems with that example? Does this man-dragon indeed gain a natural attack routine of claw/claw/bite?

-Skaros

 

[Wolf72]

initially that natural attack is gonna be pretty powerful, but when going against creatures with DR it's not gonna matter much ... and when the fighter gets to higher lvls it'll have iterative attacks that are better than the natural attacks (especially with a magic weapon) ...

just some thoughts.

I like ECL +4 for all 3 1/2-templates in the MM

 

[Buddha the DM]

For the best half dragon template go here.

http://harineldermage.tripod.com/d20/althalf-dragon.html

Thanks for the plug, Crothian.

 

[Crothian]

Thanks for the plug, Crothian.

Your welcome, I don't recommend many things.

 

[Skaros]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like the conclusions here are pretty sound then.

So, I wonder if there is any way to min-max the usefulness of such a template, given the loss of 4 levels.

That means 2 spell levels behind any other caster, and -4 on BAB compared to other fighter-types!

I can imagine that it would be a blast to roleplay the concept of a half-dragon kobold or something, but can't imagine much utility in the idea.....nor survivability. Or is it just me?

-Skaros

 

[James McMurray]

The loss of spell levels would definitely be a hit, but the increased mental stats would help (slightly). For a fighter type, the +8 strength almost makes up for a loss of 4 BAB, you lose out on iterative attacks, but get more damage for the attacks you do have.

Also, early on the breath weapon will mow things down. You don't have the HP to stand on the front ranks, but you can have an AC of 25 with no magic (full plate, shield, dex, and natural). That's pretty hefty for a 5th level character not specialized in defense.

Just be sure to get magic items that will help you survive, such as a headband of ferocity. Also, your charisma can be really high, which I would recommend. That way when you hit 2nd level (6 ECL) you can get leadership and have a cleric that follows you around to heal. Don't make him a half-dragon though.

 

[Wolf72]

6 ECL doesn't cut it, you need to be Lvl 6 to get leadership ... but your plan seems sound ...

[edit: hong I added your page to my DnD favorites. Ditto for Bhudda DM ... okay end suck-up mode]

[edit2: I looove that 1/2 dragon page, my only critique would be for the OA dragons ... they're spirit types as well, and I remember asking about 1/2 OA dragons and someone mentioned that those would be just spirit folk ...]

ej