Questions about PDF’s.

[BiggusGeekus]

I think the model is a little skewed. 90 days sales window is silly to think of with PDFs. I think we have 3 year old products that are still selling more a month than what they give as low sales figures for new products. This is because people are thinking on the low end, and not putting sufficient time and effort into products. If they realize they can do better sales, maybe they won't just be satisfied with low numbers, and actually take time and polish their products.

That and the more serious publishers can generate interest in old product with new product. If someone decides to buy ProductX-2004 and then goes to the download site to discover ProductY-2002, the consumer might become interested in the older book. However, a first time publisher by definition doesn't have that older product for sale.

Now, I am clearly talking out my posterior as I am not a publisher or an industry expert. I'm just a fanboy. But if I was a publisher, I would take that 90 day window seriously and think about what I wanted to follow up with for the next quarter. But, again, I have nothing to back that assumption up with and I will happily waddle off into the sunset given even anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

 

[HellHound]

Well, I'll tell you that outside of Monte Cook's products, the numbers posted above are pretty accurate. We may be an 800-pound gorrilla of e-publishing, but none of us can hold a candle to Monte Cook's e-release numbers.

We currently have the #1 product on RPGnow, and it can't hold up to Monte's weaker products for sales. But if we eliminate Malhavoc and E.N.Publishing from the release numbers, then the specs given by Biggus are pretty accurate.

Oh yeah, Sigil, get the product name right!

 

[The Sigil]

Uh, slight faux pas there Sigil.

Sorcery and Steam is an FFG product, Steam and Steel is is a PDF product from EN Publishing.

I sit corrected. If only companies wouldn't come out with similar products with similar names at similar times!

My bad, EN Publishing crew! I *did* buy your Steam & Steel PDF!

--Nosy

 

[The Sigil]

If you're looking for data points, for whatever it's worth, Malhavoc pdf products sell well over 200 in 90 days. (I also don't believe in the 90 day sales window for electronic products. We still sell BoEM at a steady rate and that product is 3 years old.)

I say this for one reason only, and no, it's not to toot my own horn. When I see posts like this, while they are refreshingly honest and truly helpful to those just starting, I fear they paint the complete picture of the true potential of electronic publishing. A great many of our electronic products have sales figures in the thousands, not the hundreds. In other words, while I don't want to create false hopes, I do want to make the point that there's a lot of potential out there for growth.

Have to agree with 'Hound... Malhavoc press is the 8,000-pound gorilla of e-publishing... but I see where Monte's going.

Monte is the "Exception" to the rule, but he's got a great point - there is tons of potential for growth in the PDF market. Malhavoc products, I think, lead and push the envelope (heck, the Book of Eldritch Might more or less created the PDF industry for RPGs) for RPGs, but the rest of us just aren't there yet.

At the same time, the current state of the market is what it is... most publishers consider 200 copies an excellent run. Not trying to rain on Monte's parade, but that is the reality today. I think Malhavoc represents the "reality of tomorrow" (for most of us).

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that both the "depressing" and the "optimistic" views are correct... start e-publishing with the knowledge that it COULD explode on you and become a huge success. But also start with the knowledge that odds are VERY good that right now, you're looking at modest sales. In some ways, I think it's like the stock market... you look for something that may give you explosive returns in the future, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be content with modest returns today.

Am I making sense? If you're starting e-publishing, my suggestion is you plan your business model on "modest returns" - but with an eye that if conditions are right, it could later on turn into "explosive returns." But DON'T go into e-publishing (or even regular publishing) thinking your first product is going to sell 1,000 copies and spending on art, writing, layout, etc. according to that prediction... that's a recipe for financial disaster.

--The Sigil

 

[Chaos Drake]

Yeah I agree. Right now, our first product is doing all right. But we decided not to spend on art as yet. Just realise that sales of 50 are more the norm, and if you have a good product, expect sales between 100-200.

 

[Aries_Omega]

New Publisher

This question is for anyone such as Mr. Monty Cook and anyone else who has published PDF products.

Other then a good idea for products, playtesting and having good artwork...what advice and tips can you give me as a new publisher in the market. I hope some day that my company....Creative Ideas Workshop will be a name in the industry like Malhavoc Press, Green Ronin and Sword and Sorcery.

Cris Picado

 

[Henry]

I'm going to go ahead and move this thread over to the e-publishing forum.

*healthy BUMP*

 

[DaveStebbins]

Other then a good idea for products, playtesting and having good artwork...what advice and tips can you give me as a new publisher in the market.

Here's a link to 80 pages of advice and tips.

The ePublisher guide
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1668

Not free but, from what I hear, very well regarded.

 

[Jraynack]

This question is for anyone such as Mr. Monty Cook and anyone else who has published PDF products.

Other then a good idea for products, playtesting and having good artwork...what advice and tips can you give me as a new publisher in the market. I hope some day that my company....Creative Ideas Workshop will be a name in the industry like Malhavoc Press, Green Ronin and Sword and Sorcery.

First of all, and I can only speak for Alea Publishing Group, as it was said before the potential is there, however it is a long and weary road.

Second, I suggest patience and determination in putting together a product you believe in - take your time and pace yourself. If your put forth an honest effort the customer will see that. However, don't fool yourself in thinking that you have nothing to learn.

Thirdly, do not do it for the money - and I know it has been said before - but seriously - because, beside the big dogs, it is not there. All of us at Alea still have our day jobs and will keep our day jobs for a long time. We put the money our company has earned back into the company - none of get paid for what we do (however, the company is now paying for itself - web fees, going to conventions, business licenses, etc.)

Lastly and the most important, listen to your consumers. If they are satisfied, then you should be satisfied - to a point - there is always room for improvement. Critics will help you advertise your product, however it is in the customer comments that are really important.

It is a growing business and it will be tougher to break into when .pdf companies begin presenting professional layout and quality work at hard to beat prices (the ENnie Judges can testify to that this year). Soon the consumers will not be satisfied with anything less. So, if you have an idea and are willing to give it your all, knowing that, though the potential is there, it will receive little or no recognition, then I suggest go for it and have fun! Enjoy what you do.

I will say that A Question of Honor: A Guidebook to Knights has sold over a 100 copies and we feel that it was a success. We feel the sales will continue - but as a "new" company - it has been out a year this month. However, if I wanted to make money in a sideline job, I would not have stop painting miniatures and selling them on ebay (which brought on average $500.00 extra a month). We didn't start Alea to be big - though we do have aspirations - we did it because we have fun in what we do.

Take care and good luck Ninja and Aries_Omega.

 

[Edward Kann@StoryART]

The sales figures are indeed daunting...



But we're going to try and go for it anyway.

Hey everyone. About four months ago I got laid off in the California economy, again. But this time, after a long talk with the wife we decided that it was about time for me to take seriously this crazy life long urge to kick off a game company and get my ideas into publication. (Yes I know I am soooo doomed.)

And so..with some money socked away and some help from some friends here I am investing full time into laying the ground work for StoryART Games. In fact I've been working on organizing the project and getting things rolling for about the last four months, here at my little home office, twelve hours a day, six and sometimes seven days a week. (My wife is an enthusiastic gamer and helps edit...which helps make this work out.)

I am definately the new guy on the block and very interested to learn and keep an open mind. I am also lucky enough to have a lot of support from a few friends in the professional gaming / art world.

So here we are, about four months into production on our first two game books. It is a little daunting to step right out from nowhere into posts with guys like Monte Cook and some of you others whose work I've followed for a while now. But everybody has to be the new kid at some point.

Our website is just a couple of weeks from going live which is also exciting.

This is definately a life long dream. I have been in and around gaming since 1979. If nothing else I'm going to give this a serious shot. Heck. You only live once!



Edward Kann
StoryART Games
San Mateo, California