Questions about/Problems with PHB II

Banshee16

First Post
So, I picked up the book yesterday, and have been flipping through it. Skipped the knight, because I already perused the preview, but I'll take another look later. I do think I like Green Ronin's "Cavalier" better in any any case, for a mounted chivalric warrior. And though Green Ronin still gives only 2 skill points, I think Diplomacy and Sense Motive are included as class skills..

My questions though, are regarding the Beguiler and the Duskblade.

For the Beguiler, their spell progression goes from lvl 1 to 9 in terms of how many spells they can cast per day. However, there are only Beguiler spells for lvls 1 through 6, from what I remember. There is the ability that allows a Beguiler to learn some wizard/sorcerer spells, but how many new spells will they get between levels 12 and 20? Maybe 2? That's not enough to allow the Beguiler to cast 7, 8, and 9, unless those slots are intended only to allow high-level metamagicked spells. Am I reading something incorrectly?

For the Duskblade, the class abilities are cool, and the class is neat...almost like a ranger or paladin, being a martial class with spell abilities...but instead of priestly spells, he gains arcane spells. However, he's limited to lvl 5, and only to Duskblade spells, which from what I can see, appear inferior to Wizard/Sorc spells of the same level. What's with the short duration spells lately? Between Tome of Magic and now this, WotC seems to be creating lots of spells with 1 round or 5 round durations, etc. The Duskblade, with respect to what magic he can command, seems completely inferior to a character who is something like a Fighter5/Wizard5/Eldritch Knight 10. His buffs are weaker, he doesn't have much in the way of blasting spells, and his protections aren't great either.

Is it just me, or is something a little "off" with those two classes?

Banshee
 

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Are you sure you're looking at the complete spell lists for each class (pages 11 and 24), rather than just the new spells as listed in the Spell chapter?
 

I'll start with the duskblade question:

He has a full BAB progression, and can wear armor with little (or no) caster level penalty, and you're kevetching that his spell list is limited.

Look, if he was a Fighter 5 / wizard 5 / elderitch knight 10 he's not only have a lower BAB, worse reflex save, lower hit points, and, if they chose to be armored as well as the Duskblade, significantly more likely to fail their spells, they'd also be... umn... well, they'd be different, 'cause they could cast up to 7th level spells.

Besides, the fighter / wizard / elderitch is only casting 7th level spells, and a duskblade is more focused towards his melee offensive then blasting. Duskblades are 2nd row fighters, in much the same vein as a ranger.
 

Yeah but couldn't it work to make them decent spellcasters to say 7-8 level like AE/AU's Mageblade.

No offense Ari, it's a good class but I feel it could be a tad better.
 

Nightfall said:
Yeah but couldn't it work to make them decent spellcasters to say 7-8 level like AE/AU's Mageblade.

No offense Ari, it's a good class but I feel it could be a tad better.

A) Why would I take offense? I didn't write it.

B) I like it better than the mage blade, for a variety of reasons. I prefer the idea of a "fighter-mage" concentrating on combat/melee-based spells. And I'd suggest that if you don't think the duskblade is a "decent" spellcaster, you haven't read the spell list thoroughly enough.
 

Banshee16 said:
So, I picked up the book yesterday, and have been flipping through it. Skipped the knight, because I already perused the preview, but I'll take another look later. I do think I like Green Ronin's "Cavalier" better in any any case, for a mounted chivalric warrior. And though Green Ronin still gives only 2 skill points, I think Diplomacy and Sense Motive are included as class skills..

My questions though, are regarding the Beguiler and the Duskblade.

For the Beguiler, their spell progression goes from lvl 1 to 9 in terms of how many spells they can cast per day. However, there are only Beguiler spells for lvls 1 through 6, from what I remember. There is the ability that allows a Beguiler to learn some wizard/sorcerer spells, but how many new spells will they get between levels 12 and 20? Maybe 2? That's not enough to allow the Beguiler to cast 7, 8, and 9, unless those slots are intended only to allow high-level metamagicked spells. Am I reading something incorrectly?

For the Duskblade, the class abilities are cool, and the class is neat...almost like a ranger or paladin, being a martial class with spell abilities...but instead of priestly spells, he gains arcane spells. However, he's limited to lvl 5, and only to Duskblade spells, which from what I can see, appear inferior to Wizard/Sorc spells of the same level. What's with the short duration spells lately? Between Tome of Magic and now this, WotC seems to be creating lots of spells with 1 round or 5 round durations, etc. The Duskblade, with respect to what magic he can command, seems completely inferior to a character who is something like a Fighter5/Wizard5/Eldritch Knight 10. His buffs are weaker, he doesn't have much in the way of blasting spells, and his protections aren't great either.

Is it just me, or is something a little "off" with those two classes?

Banshee


First of all, look on page eleven, (Top-right corner) for the Beguiler's spell list (I missed it the first time too, I thought it was the example character) It is listed there. In the spells section they only list the new spells inthe PHBII.

Teh Duskblade is a hybrid class, so they had best NOT ahve full spellcasting, or even decent spellcasting. If you wnat that, go another route. This is kind of like complaining a Bard does not get 9th level spells. They get other things.
 

Agent Oracle said:
I'll start with the duskblade question:

He has a full BAB progression, and can wear armor with little (or no) caster level penalty, and you're kevetching that his spell list is limited.

Look, if he was a Fighter 5 / wizard 5 / elderitch knight 10 he's not only have a lower BAB, worse reflex save, lower hit points, and, if they chose to be armored as well as the Duskblade, significantly more likely to fail their spells, they'd also be... umn... well, they'd be different, 'cause they could cast up to 7th level spells.

Besides, the fighter / wizard / elderitch is only casting 7th level spells, and a duskblade is more focused towards his melee offensive then blasting. Duskblades are 2nd row fighters, in much the same vein as a ranger.

Well, there's not a huge difference between +17 at lvl 20, and +20. The armour is a valid point. I'm not saying the Duskblade sucks....I'm saying that he seems to have good abilities, but the spell list is *really* limited.

However, Ari asked the question about whether I was referring to the spell lists for the Beguiler (pg. 11), and Duskblade (pg. 24), or the list of *new* spells in the Spells chapter, and I should beat my head against the desk here, because when I was flipping through the book last night, it was really late, right before bed, and in fact I didn't even see the spell lists on pg. 11 and 24. So that could be the main part of the problem...human error.

Ari, thanks for pointing that out. I'll take another look when I get home from work.

Banshee
 

Banshee16 said:
Ari, thanks for pointing that out. I'll take another look when I get home from work.

Banshee

No problem. As I mentioned in another thread, a lot of peope--myself initially included--missed those. They sort of blend in with the sample NPCs, so on a skim they don't look like a seperate list.
 

This (might) be a dumb question - but under the Druid's "Animal Companions" entry on page 41, there is the denoter "A" which says "See D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update for new statistics".

Anyonw know what this is?
 

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