Questions about the various incarnations of D&D

[johnsemlak]

2) Were there any new classes/races that appeared in the D&D Gazetteers? Any variants of existing ones?

There were serveral:

Ylarum Gazatteer: Dervish class (a desert druid)

Rockhome Gazatteer: Dwarf-cleric (which was similar to a standard Elf class, but advanced as a fighter and cleric)

Enthegar Gazatteer: Shaman

Darokin gazatteer: Merchant (which you had to acheive after advanceing in another class, sort of like a PrC)

Minrothad Gazatteer: Sea Merchant (IIRC similar to the Merchant in the Darokin Gaz)

The Five Shires also had something called the Keeper of the Flame or something, with magic-user powers I believe. I never saw it.

There were a couple of (IMO bad) classes in the Dawn of Emperors Gazatteer: The forester (a human fighter-magic user, almost just like an elf) and the rake (can't remember, was very similar to the thief I think)

There may have been others in the Shadow Elves or the Orcs of Thar as well.

Oh, and the Alfheim Gazatteer expanded on the Elf class, allowing them to advance as magic-users, cast cleric spells, etc.

[nostalgia] Ooooh, these are fond memories. I loved the Gazatteer line, though they did get worse at the end. [/nostalgia]

3) IIRC, the Dragon magazine series of themed articles, "Voyage of the Princess Ark" provided "basic" D&D versions of the half-elf and bard premiered in these articles, right? Did any other "basic" D&D versions of AD&D races/classes appear (like rangers, gnomes, barbarians, etc.)?

Once again, thanks for all the info!

Well, can't help you on the Dragon stuff (I just ordered the CD Archive, so I'll check next week ) but Alfheim did briefly mention the D&D take on the half-elf--basically, those of mixed parentage had to choose to be either a PC human or elf. There was no half-elf 'class', but they did exist in the rules.

This issue was a matter of long debate at the Yahoo 3e Mystara group, as I recall.

 

[PowerWordDumb]

Nostalgia!

Having begun my D&D/AD&D/d20 adventure at around the same time as the original poster, I have to say that I love these "D&D Archaeology" threads (as I internally label them).

I would kill to have access to the original and subsequent versions of the rulesets, even in PDF form so as not to detract from the investment value of the actual surviving sets that people have collected.

Also, Gary Gygax's brain in a jar so that I could ask questions about the implied history of the game, the evolution of Greyhawk, etc etc and get the real answers straight from the man.

I'm aware of a couple of websites that do a fairly good job of listing the various incarnations as they were published, but I'd love to read the things and get a bird's eye view of the evolution of my favorite hobby first-hand. Personally, I find this stuff endlessly fascinating.

 

[johnsemlak]

Also, Gary Gygax's brain in a jar so that I could ask questions about the implied history of the game, the evolution of Greyhawk, etc etc and get the real answers straight from the man.

Are you aware of the Gary Gygax Q&A thread ?

Admittedly, it hasn't been that active lately. However, Gary has answered a TON of questions on it. You might be able to revive the thread, as well.

Also, browsing back through the thread (actually-- threads, there are 4) may answer a lot of your questions already, especially about Greyhawk.

 

[PowerWordDumb]

Are you aware of the Gary Gygax Q&A thread ?

Yes I am, and I have greedily devoured every little drop of inspiration that has flowed from Gary. It's wonderful stuff to be sure.

But what I'd really like (Gary's brain in a jar notwithstanding) is some sort of annotated evolution of the game. Stuff like "we tried to do X, but it didn't work because of... so we did Z instead". It's an unreasonable expectation, but reading that in-line with the actual rulesets would be a personal dream come true.

For now, the best I can do is archive the "Ask Gary" threads and try to dissect them into a usable form.

 

[smetzger]

Thanks for the quick replies, everyone!

If you'll indulge me, here are a few more questions for ya:

9) I know AD&D had percentile Strength, but I did stumble across some old Dragon mags were other 18 value stats also had percentile values. Was this a regular rule in original D&D that had been (mostly) dropped from AD&D (w/ the obvious exception of Strength), or was it a supplemental rule that was used & then dropped/modified for later use?

Are you sure these weren't 1e Cavalier's? They had percentile for the abilities that increased as they gained levels.

 

[adwyn]

AFAIK The earliest use of the percentile system for non strength stats appears in the old Giants in/of the Earth column from Dragon magazine as early as issues in the thirties. I have from that time (`78-`79) several small zine ways of handling these, so I have always believed there was no "official" designation.

 

[Walter_J]

#10 Looking at the old blue book (the one with the wizard and fighter battling a dragon) the bonus you got for a stat depended on the stat. For example: Preime Requisite 13-14 +5%, 15+ +10% experience. Con 15-16 +1 hp/die, 17 +2, 18 +3. Dex 13+ "fire any missile at +1". Nothing listed for the other 4 stats, although I didn't look under languages for Int.

 

[Plane Sailing]

9) I know AD&D had percentile Strength, but I did stumble across some old Dragon mags were other 18 value stats also had percentile values. Was this a regular rule in original D&D that had been (mostly) dropped from AD&D (w/ the obvious exception of Strength), or was it a supplemental rule that was used & then dropped/modified for later use?

10) Speaking of stats, was original D&D like AD&D regarding stat bonuses (that is, receiving no bonuses to a stat unless it was 15-16 or higher)? Or was it more like the Rules Cyclopedia D&D, with 9-12 being average, 13-15 at +1, 16-17 at +2, and 18 at +3 (and a similar point spread for lower stats & penalties)?

9) Percentage strength was introduced in Greyhawk, the first of the D&D supplements. On page 7. Halfway down the page (I've got it open and looking at it now). Percentage abilities for other attributes was never introduced in any of the supplements (although everyone and their dog must have made up house rules for it)

10) There was no consistency between different stats and the amount of bonus gained. In Greyhawk CON gave +1 at 15-16, +2 at 17, +3 at 18. Fighters (only) gained +1 AC per point of dex over 14. Str gave +1 hit at 13-15, +1 hit and damage at 16, +2 hit and damage at 17, +2 hit and +3 damage at 18


Do you want to know anything about the lethal and abortive attempt to introduce "hit locations" in Blackmoor?

Did you know that when Paladins were introduced, one of their powers was that "Paladins of 8th level and above dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters and the like) simply by ordering it hence".

"Begone you naughty creatures" indeed!

Did you know that the 9th level version of Summon Monster could produce one of these for you:
Stone Golem
Iron Golem
Umber Hulk
Hell Hounds
Displacer Beast Pack
Hydra with 10 fire breathing heads
Lich (20th level magic user)

I know which one *I* would have been summoning!

Cheers

 

[cildarith]

I know which one *I* would have been summoning!

Umm. The umber hulk?

 

[Dark Jezter]

Umm. The umber hulk?

Bah! He clearly would have chosen the Hell Hounds.