Questions for the designers.

[GreatLemur]

I don't really see what's hard to understand about "Three different kinds of shiny, brown, good-aligned dragon are boring, and for the decades that they were in the game, they failed completely to stand out for the vast majority of gamers." You can't argue away the fairly obvious truth--as demonstrated by this thread--that pretty much nobody cares about bronze and brass dragons. They had their chance, and they failed to catch people's imagination. Now they're being replaced with new dragons which have probably received a little bit more thought, created with a whole lot of hindsight in mind.

Anyway, what's the sense in complaining? You know bronze and brass dragons will just return in Monster Manual 2 or some web suppliment, anyway. All they're losing is their place among the core metallics.

 

[Cadfan]

For reference, here are links to images of brass, bronze, and copper.

Unfortunately the URLs give away which is which, so I can't make a quiz.

 

[Derren]

And how is having three gray lawful dragons better?
Metallic dragons becoming non-good and replacing bronze and brass dragon are two different issues which have nothing to do with each other.

Why is it so hard to understand that they did not stand out? Because that is not true. Most of the chromatic dragons have less "personality" than those two dragons which were very clearly defined. You need an ocean dragon? The bronze one is the only choice you have. And brass dragons are very good information brokers.
Compare that to "Dragon sitting in a forest eating intruders" (green) and "dragon sitting in a swamp eating intruders" (black).
And when WotC did want to not have a talkative or oceanic dragon in the game they could simply have changed that part of the description of those dragons instead of removing them.

But I guess this is because people wanted more shades of gray in D&D and now they got them. Shiny gray, not so shiny gray and really dark gray which is easy to confuse with black.

 

[TwoSix]

But I guess this is because people wanted more shades of gray in D&D and now they got them. Shiny gray, not so shiny gray and really dark gray which is easy to confuse with black.

If possible, I would like "gray between shiny and not-so-shiny" and "just dark gray, not really dark gray." And charcoal gray.

And gunmetal.

 

[GreatLemur]

And how is having three gray lawful dragons better?

The fact that they aren't just plain gray (in the way that coppers, bronzes, and brasses were just plain brown) makes that kind of a pointless argument. But there's also the fact that iron has a whole lot more distinct meaning for most folks than bronze and brass. I mean, it's iron. You don't get much more fundamental. As for adamantine . . . eh. It's a D&Dism. No resonance for regular folks, but I guess all of us know it.

Why is it so hard to understand that they did not stand out? Because that is not true.

You can say that all you want, but I haven't seen anyone agree with you. The personal experiences of everyone else in this thread suggest that there just wasn't enough to catch people's imagination in the old metallics.

 

[zoroaster100]

Replacing bronze and brass dragons doesn't bother me. If you look at D&D art or miniatures for these dragons, it was really hard to tell which was which. And having the same type of breath weapons as the chromatics (and in the case of brass, even the same as another metallic, gold), plus weird gas breath weapons, just didn't cut it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If possible, I would like "gray between shiny and not-so-shiny" and "just dark gray, not really dark gray." And charcoal gray.

And gunmetal.

Hehe... I think we have about 6+ grey tones defined in our WPF application. I am not sure that all are actually used, but someone obviously was certain we needed them all.

 

[Aeolius]

So which new dragon will replace the bronze, for living nears coasts and seas? Not the iron, I hope. Ever seen what saltwater does to iron?

 

[rkanodia]

So which new dragon will replace the bronze, for living nears coasts and seas? Not the iron, I hope. Ever seen what saltwater does to iron?

I think a dragon with rusty, corroded scales would be AWESOME.

 

[TwoSix]

So which new dragon will replace the bronze, for living nears coasts and seas? Not the iron, I hope. Ever seen what saltwater does to iron?

Sodium dragon.