Questions with Gate

[Nail]

Well, my long-time PC has finally done it: He's made it to 9th level spell territory! (I started at 4th level...it's been quite a long hike!) As my Clr is a summoner specialist, I thought I'd start throwing around a few Gate spells. (...and hey, who needs the 1000XP anyway? )

So here's the question: When I call a creature, can I call an advanced creature, rather than the "regular vanilla" flavor? Let's use as an example a 34 HD (Huge) Solar.

Here's the relevant text from the Gate spell.

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection ....(snip)....

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.

....(snip)....

Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).

If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and control several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level.......(snip)......

 

[Thanee]

That should be possible.

As a sidenote: I'd probably house rule the spell to only allow your caster level in HD in any case (not just when calling multiple creatures), but reduce the XP cost to 500 XP.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

Right. I'd likely do the same......but this is a "by the books" campaign, mostly, since we have multiple DMs.

If you'll note, I'm being a shade tricky. By choosing to advance the Solar to 34 HD, his size changes from the base description. That should make it easier to argue that I can call that "kind" of creature.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The question is whether an advanced X is a "unique creature."

For my purposes, it isn't (elsewise, you get into the "everybody is unique" discussion). "Deities and unique beings" refers, IMO, to demon lords, the princes of Hell, etc.

Your DM's mileage may vary, however.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If you gate in a solar, you get a normal run-of-the-mill solar (as if such a thing exists). You can't say gate in a 34HD solar by naming "Solar, 34HD" as the type. You can only specify "solar". Thus, to get a 34HD solar, you must name the specific solar (presumably you know of one).

Anything other than a typical specimen is therefore provably a "unique" creature for the purposes of gate.

 

[Thanee]

Well, it's just a recommendation.

If your DM doesn't like advanced creatures... put the Epic Level Handbook in front of you and tap your fingers on it... s/he will surely agree, that a 34 HD Solar is a reasonable choice!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Anything other than a typical specimen is therefore provably a "unique" creature for the purposes of gate.

Which it says where, exactly?

That's your interpretation, and it's a fine one, of course, but it is nowhere called out explicitly.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Which it says where, exactly?

That's your interpretation, and it's a fine one, of course, but it is nowhere called out explicitly.

The best way I can answer that is by asking you to define "kind" of a being, in game, as specifically a 34 HD solar. It can't be done. The only way in game that you could do that is say "Ralph" who you know is a 34HD solar.

The question boils down, therefore, into, "Would do you allow as 'kinds' of beings to gate?"

Note that if you respond that kind could in fact be construed as any type of advancement for a creature (heck, why advance the solar by HD and not add class levels), then it opens up a whole can of worms. Now, all those demons and stuff with summoning abilities will be summoning the maximum possible advanced creatures, maybe with 80 class levels.

 

[Nail]

The best way I can answer that is by asking you to define "kind" of a being, in game, as specifically a 34 HD solar. It can't be done.

Not true.

"I summon a (size) Huge Solar."

 

[Nail]

(oh, and let's be clear: no matter how you slice it, this spell is ripe for min-maxing. Always has been; you'll note I'm not asking about wishes and what-not. That's not my question.)

If your DM doesn't like advanced creatures... put the Epic Level Handbook in front of you and tap your fingers on it...

It's already on my "to-do" list.