Quick and easy Sorcerer

[Fredrik Svanberg]

I'm actually serious. What is the desired goal of the sorcerer class?

For me, in creating this quick solution, the desired goal was to be able to easier convert npcs from 3.5. I could of course have used the Warlock to represent a natural, charismatic caster, and I did, but it didn't seem quite right. Warlock and wizard spells are quite different after all. Warlocks also don't get the implement mastery or the cantrips of the wizard, and I personally like my sorcerers to have cantrips.

So while I don't see anything particularly wrong with the ideas presented here, I also doubt any characters created with this in mind will map well to whatever they officially come up with.

No problem for me. I am planning to use this mostly for npcs anyway.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

Magic in the Blood is a powerful ability but you give up a lot for it, so I think it does a good job of detailing the major difference between sorcerors and wizards - less spell selection, but able to cast their spells more often.

This seems to be a problem:


It seems like an unnecessary limitation, unless your intent is to make Sorcerors inferior to Wizards. Why not just do a full swap of charisma for intelligence:

Force of Personality:
Your Wizard spells (and Wizard Paragon Path spells) use your Charisma modifier in place of Intelligence.

First of all I didn't check to see how many spells had secondary effects depending on Intelligence so I don't know how terribly limiting it would be.

Second: making Intelligence important for certain effects means that Wizards are probably better at those spells. It creates a greater difference between the classes, which might help maintaining some wizard flavor.

Third: it means that sorcerers can benefit from getting a high Intelligence score, so their powers aren't completely tied up in one ability. Getting a decent intelligence will also help with their AC and Reflex saves. If a sorcerer could use Charisma for everything it would be too easy to create a powerful build since everything else would be a dump stat.

Also, the feat seems too strong. It basically gives you a free recharge once per encounter, which is probably an epic level effect. Instead, how about:

More Magic In the Blood [Sorcerer]
Prerequisites: Sorcerer, Con 13 or Wis 13
When you use your Second Wind you can choose to recharge one of your encounter spells instead of gaining the normal benefit of Second Wind.

I don't think my feat is too powerful. Being able to recharge a Daily power is an epic tier feat - this is for Encounter powers. I consider this feat to be about as powerful as Expanded Spellbook, and about as desireable.

Finally, I'd give the Sorceror leather armor. I know they don't get it in 3.5, but Wizards don't get to add their intelligence to AC in 3.5 either. The Sorceror need something to keep him from being a complete target.

I considered giving them leather armor but I couldn't justify it.

 

[Falling Icicle]

This is my idea on how to make a Sorcerer until we get an official version. Simply use the rules for Wizards except as follows:

Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

I would take out Religion and History. Sorcerers aren't as studied as Wizards and don't really have a reason to have those knowledges.

Replace the Spellbook and Ritual Casting class features with Magic In the Blood and Force of Personality.

Force of Personality
Your Wizard spells use your Charisma modifier instead of Intelligence for attack and damage rolls. All other effects that are based on Intelligence remain unchanged.

Magic In the Blood
The first time you become bloodied during an encounter one of your encounter spells recharges.

I like where you're going with this, but I'm not sure these alone make up for the loss of ritual casting and the spellbook, which give Wizards enormous versatility. How about adding this?

Spontaneous Casting
Once per day, as a free action, you can draw a spell from within the deepest recesses of your mind and soul. You intuitively cast a spell, but then forget it as quickly as it had appeared in your mind. Choose one daily or encounter spell that is equal or lower level than you are. You gain the knowledge of this spell for up to 1 turn and can use it once.

This would give Sorcerers a bit of the flexibility wizards enjoy, but does so in a way that is appropriate to their style.

Sorcerers count as Wizards for the purpose of fulfilling feat prerequisites.

This would allow them to get the Expanded Spellbook feat, which would be... odd.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

Odd, perhaps, but since they have no spellbook they have no use for it, so why would a sorcerer take it?

The class skills are the same as for Warlocks. If those lazy cheaters can be studious, so can a sorcerer.

If I gave sorcerers proficiency with simple weapons and leather armor, would that make up for Ritual Casting? It's after all one feat for a whole bunch of others. Perhaps more hit points and surges would make up for it?

 

[GnomeWorks]

I dunno. Is a gentle reminder harder than being condescending?

Welcome to the 'tubes.

...and really, with all the fur flying around here nowadays, did you really expect that anyone would look at that post and not see a threadcrap? My apologies if you're new around here, in which case the harshness would be mostly unwarranted, but seriously - if you've spent any amount of time out here at all in the past several months, you should totally know by now that a curt post like your first one in this thread was most likely going to garner a harsh reaction.

Anyway Fredrik, I'll quit derailing your thread now...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if it wouldn't be even more interesting to add a "Dragon Pact" to the Warlock? Unless you dislike the "draconic heritage" approach of the Sorcerer is disappointing.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

That could work, but then I'd have to make up a bunch of new powers wouldn't I? Plus I wouldn't get to keep the flavour of the wizard powers that I want. Unless I just copy over a bunch of wizard powers to make up the dragon pact powers, but then other warlocks would gain access to them as well. It's a bit of a mess really. Not to mention that there might be many other sources for a Sorcerers powers than a draconic heritage - which by the way isn't so much a pact as it is genetics. Accidental or otherwise.

 

[Sunsword]

I don't think my feat is too powerful. Being able to recharge a Daily power is an epic tier feat - this is for Encounter powers. I consider this feat to be about as powerful as Expanded Spellbook, and about as desireable.

Yeah, but Expanded Spellbook gives them more choices not more uses of Power, I'd at least make this a Paragon Tier Feat.

I'd also drop the Implement Advantage for not needing an Implement Keyword to use powers.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

The whole point of a sorcerer (D&D-style) is to get "more uses" than a wizard, but less options.

Why would you want to get rid of the Implement Mastery feature?

 

[Khaalis]

I wonder if it wouldn't be even more interesting to add a "Dragon Pact" to the Warlock? Unless you dislike the "draconic heritage" approach of the Sorcerer is disappointing.

This is likely the next project on my plate already. My homebrew world has a continent ruled by dragons. In a way similar to Darksun, I want to have a Dragon Pact for warlocks to represent the ability of the "mortals" to gain power from the draconic overlords. If anyone else is interested in the idea, we could start another thread.

As to the Sorcerer, I personally like the way WotC seems to be taking the class. I always felt the Wilder was what the sorcerer should have been in 3X, so having a 'wild/uncontrolled' aspect to the sorcerer works great IMHO. If I were "tweaking" the wizard to be a sorcerer, I'd incorporate that aspect into the class in some manner. JMHO.

In addition:
-- I'd make it a CHA based class, not INT. Let them use wizard spells but using CHA instead of INT.
-- Keep cantrips.
-- No ritual casting for free (they can still take the feat like everyone else).
-- Trained Skills: No thievery. I don't see sorcerers being naturally trained and adept at thievery. Keep: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) and Streetwise (Cha)
-- Retain the need for implements. All classes need them. However, I'd change the type to something new such as a fetish, athem, idol, etc.
-- I wouldn't focus on Spontaneous casting, that is concept that doesn't really fit in 4E. I would make them take powers the same way every class with the exception of wizard does, otherwise you are stepping on a wizard's one unique shtick (the spellbook). This is where I'd go the chaos magic route.

I also agree that Power Recharge is at least a Paragon if not Epic level ability.

Thats just the thoughts off the top of my head.