Quick and easy Sorcerer

[Khaalis]

The whole point of a sorcerer (D&D-style) is to get "more uses" than a wizard, but less options.

This is a broken concept in 4E. No one gets more uses of powers than anyone else. If they do, it breaks the core balance.

Why would you want to get rid of the Implement Mastery feature?

It doesn't fit the sorcerer. It is part of the Wizard's unique shtick (along with the spellbook). If you keep too much of the wizard's shtick , it isn't a new class.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

This is a broken concept in 4E. No one gets more uses of powers than anyone else. If they do, it breaks the core balance.

It's one more use of an encounter power per encounter, two if you take a feat. A multiclassed half-elf gets the same deal. Granted, a multiclassed half-elf sorcerer would get a lot of potential uses out of their powers...

It doesn't fit the sorcerer. It is part of the Wizard's unique shtick (along with the spellbook). If you keep too much of the wizard's shtick , it isn't a new class.

It's not part of the wizard's unique schtick. Where did you get that idea? Personally I think staves, wands and orbs are perfectly fine. Since the two classes wield the exact same spells it makes sense that they use the same implements.

I'm not trying to make a whole new class, I'm making up a quick solution for emulating sorcerers so I can convert npcs from 3.5 easier. If it works for player characters too, that's great, but I don't have any sorcerer PCs in my game so it's not really important to me.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

It's one more use of an encounter power per encounter, two if you take a feat. A multiclassed half-elf gets the same deal. Granted, a multiclassed half-elf sorcerer would get a lot of potential uses out of their powers...

It's true that multiclassed half-elves get two more encounter powers than anyone else, but those extra two are actually at-wills in power level. What you're giving the sorcerer is basically two extra actual encounter powers, something that nothing else in the game can emulate until epic levels. That smells of imbalance to me.

Also, that means that a multiclassed half-elf sorcerer can have effectively 4 more encounter powers than anyone else

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but it just seems too powerful. I like the suggestion earlier in the thread to have the feat give you an encounter power recharge with Second Wind but no healing surge, instead of both. I think that could bump it down to Paragon ... but I think still too powerful for Heroic. Especially if you leave in the normal class encounter recharge on bloodied.

 

[Samurai]

This is a broken concept in 4E. No one gets more uses of powers than anyone else. If they do, it breaks the core balance.


It doesn't fit the sorcerer. It is part of the Wizard's unique shtick (along with the spellbook). If you keep too much of the wizard's shtick , it isn't a new class.

I think the way I did it above, allowing a Sorcerer to burn a higher level power of the same frequency in order to reuse a power, works well and is balanced.

Say you are 7th level. You have 3 Encounter powers: 7th, 3rd, and 1st level. If for some reason you wanted to reuse your 1st level Encounter attack, you could do it by crossing off the 3rd or 7th level power instead. Generally, lower level powers are weaker, but there may be times when the secondary condition of a power is needed, or maybe your higher level power uses fire and the target is immune to fire. So there would be times it would be useful, but I don't think this form of Spontaneous Casting will make him much more powerful, especially since you can't burn lower level spells to reuse higher level ones.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

I echo the sentiments of Khaalis. You of course, can use the class however you deem fit. But you did ask for feedback.

The only way I can easily justify extra spellcasting for a Sorcerer is say with a Daily Power called Arcane Heritage that allows them to cast an Encounter Power they've used & they'd lose the Spellbook & Implement Class Features (but their spells don't require an implement).

The only other option I see is that Sorcerers are allowed to choose any Power of their level or less to simulate casting the same Utility or ENcounter or Daily spell over again.

This is however just feedback.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

I just don't see the significance of one more encounter spell per encounter, if bloodied, or two with a feat, if also spending a healing surge.

In fact I would probably want to add more feats to the paragon and epic levels to allow for more recharges, in order to make the Sorcerer "worth it".

Is there a real reason for why you (any of you) think that the recharge is too powerful other than the fact that no other class gets to do it? Is there a broken combo that can be pulled off by sometimes letting Sorcerers use the same spell twice in an encounter?

I mean, sure, the sorcerer will have a little more firepower but that is the essence of the sorcerer. Less options, more firepower. Personally I think the "ban" against memorizing the same spell more than once is so that a wizard can't load up on one spell that would be most beneficial or broken when unloaded multiple times on the battlefield. Also, it prevents making things too predictable, makes it easier for the player to keep track of things and the DM doesn't have to worry about more than one field of Evard's Black Tentacles at the same time (for example).

I'm sorry but letting the sorcerer switch higher level powers for lower level ones seems way too complicated and has no precedence in the rules. Powers recharging when bloodied is a common ability for monsters, especially for dragons, so giving a similar power to sorcerers adds that draconic flavor as well.

 

[Samurai]

I just don't see the significance of one more encounter spell per encounter, if bloodied, or two with a feat, if also spending a healing surge.

In fact I would probably want to add more feats to the paragon and epic levels to allow for more recharges, in order to make the Sorcerer "worth it".

Is there a real reason for why you (any of you) think that the recharge is too powerful other than the fact that no other class gets to do it? Is there a broken combo that can be pulled off by sometimes letting Sorcerers use the same spell twice in an encounter?

I mean, sure, the sorcerer will have a little more firepower but that is the essence of the sorcerer. Less options, more firepower. Personally I think the "ban" against memorizing the same spell more than once is so that a wizard can't load up on one spell that would be most beneficial or broken when unloaded multiple times on the battlefield. Also, it prevents making things too predictable, makes it easier for the player to keep track of things and the DM doesn't have to worry about more than one field of Evard's Black Tentacles at the same time (for example).

I'm sorry but letting the sorcerer switch higher level powers for lower level ones seems way too complicated and has no precedence in the rules. Powers recharging when bloodied is a common ability for monsters, especially for dragons, so giving a similar power to sorcerers adds that draconic flavor as well.

It's not complicated at all. How do you mark off a power that you've used for a day? Personally, I put a little check mark next to it. So:

Player: I'd like to use my level 1 Encounter power again, the one I used last round.

DM: Ok, check off either your 3rd level or 7th level Encounter power.

Player: I'll check off my level 3 power. And my attack roll is...

Next round...

Player: I need to use that level 1 Encounter attack again, so I'll check off my level 7 power this time.

DM: Fine, go ahead and roll your attack.


That's all there is to it, how is that complicated at all? Compare that to the complications in your system... What if you become Bloodied, heal up to above Bloodied, and then become Bloodied again? Will you keep getting powers back each time you cross that threshold? Or only the 1st time? And what if you enter a combat already Bloodied? Can you then automatically reuse a power? That all seems far more complicated IMO than just checking off a different power.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

That's all there is to it, how is that complicated at all? Compare that to the complications in your system... What if you become Bloodied, heal up to above Bloodied, and then become Bloodied again? Will you keep getting powers back each time you cross that threshold? Or only the 1st time? And what if you enter a combat already Bloodied? Can you then automatically reuse a power? That all seems far more complicated IMO than just checking off a different power.

Well since all those problems are already taken care of in the description of the feature, I don't see a problem at all.

Magic In the Blood
The first time you become bloodied during an encounter one of your encounter spells recharges.

It only works the first time you become bloodied during an encounter.

If you enter an encounter already bloodied, you're out of luck. That's when the "More Magic In the Blood"-feat would come in handy. If you heal up during this encounter and stop being bloodied, but then become bloodied again, the "Magic In the Blood"-feature would kick in and let you recharge a spell. It's all there in the description of the feature.

Granted, your system doesn't seem that complicated after all but it doesn't do anything for a 1st level sorcerer who doesn't have any 3rd or 7th level encounter spells to cross out, does it? My system works at every level. It also doesn't work for npcs who only have one encounter spell ever. My system works fine for npcs too.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

I made some changes and added this class to the wiki, here:
http://www.enworld.org/wiki/index.php/4E_Sorcerer

Feel free to comment on this or add stuff to it.

 

[Stalker0]

The thing to remember here is, by having the sorceror use charisma instead of int as his primary stat, your AC is going to tank.

Int is how wizards get AC, as they start with no armor. Even with most light armors your AC is going to be garbage. With that in mind, I don't' mind the sorc having stronger offensive powers like the ability to recharge encounter powers.