Quick and Simple Rule: Half Resistance vs Ongoing Damage

[Stalker0]

One "issue" (its a issue to some and not to others) is how powerful resistances can be in 4e. One of the main causes of the complaint is resistance are extremely powerful vs ongoing damage...in many cases completely negating the ongoing damage.

So for those who believe this is an issue, a very easy rule:

Against Ongoing Damage, resistances are halved.

So if you have resistance 5 fire, it counts as resistance 2 vs ongoing fire damage.

Resistance 20 necrotic is resistance 10 necrotic against ongoing necrotic damage.


Resistance stay useful (they are still cutting ongoing damage in half or more in many cases) but not completely dominant against ongoing damage.

Thoughts?

 

[Llamas Notsheep]

Actually, I'd say that's kind of a bad idea. Resistances aren't overpowered, for one simple reason: there are many, many different types of damage. From a DM/monster perspective, there are tons of options for damage types, both for regular and ongoing damage. It's a big deal as a player when you pick your items/powers carefully and it pays off, dramatically helping you in your encounter. On the flip side, as a PC, it's important to diversify your powers or pick items that suit your specialty in piercing resists. Neither is that hard to do.

In our group, the wizard broke one encounter with a mass resist spell, completely neutralizing the necrotic damage that all but one of the monster types were doing. After that, though, the DM very easily adapted encounters so that damage types were a little more varied. Typically no more than half of the monsters would be limited to a given damage type. It's really easy to do in terms of encounter design. You can have different monsters with different damage types; you can have a given monster type with multiple damage types; or you can easily just ensure that monsters have untyped attacks as well as a specific damage type.

If a character goes to great lengths to manage his resists, he should be rewarded for it. He sacrifices plenty to do it, and with decent encounter design it's really not particularly overpowered.

That said, if you're really set on it, I'd say getting half resist for ongoing damage isn't terrible. It means your players probably won't be picking much in the way of resistance gear, since the main reason you do get resistance gear is for ongoing damage. But that's not the end of the world.

 

[the Jester]

Er, why would you do this? I mean, what's the in-game justification?

There's nothing wrong with resisting damage, for pcs or monsters, in my opinion.

 

[Stalker0]

Er, why would you do this? I mean, what's the in-game justification?

There's nothing wrong with resisting damage, for pcs or monsters, in my opinion.

One of the ongoing arguments is whether resistances in 4th edition are too strong.

I have found in my experiences resistances are one of the strongest defenses you can buy. Because damage doesn't scale that fast in 4e, even resistance 5 can negate a large amount of damage.

But where this really comes into play is ongoing damage. Resistance often completely negates or closely cripples ongoing damage.

 

[the Jester]

One of the ongoing arguments is whether resistances in 4th edition are too strong.

I have found in my experiences resistances are one of the strongest defenses you can buy. Because damage doesn't scale that fast in 4e, even resistance 5 can negate a large amount of damage.

But where this really comes into play is ongoing damage. Resistance often completely negates or closely cripples ongoing damage.

While I agree that resistances are really strong in 4e, I have no problem with the image of (f'rinstance) a tiefling lit on fire and laughing it off. This was actually a very dramatic scene imc.

I'd leave them alone, personally.

 

[Llamas Notsheep]

Well, if you really think they're overpowered, I suppose halving resists for ongoing damage might be appropriate. I'd suggest at least rounding up - resist 2 is pretty trivial when you're generally going to be giving up an item slot + substantial cash or a daily power for it.

Frankly, though, from late heroic on, I think you'll find that no one bothers to get resists if they're halved against ongoing damage. Ongoing damage is the main purpose of resists, and halving them will more or less trivialize the levels of resist you can get at any given point after level 5 or so.

For perspective, pick any resistance item and compare it to other items of similar level. With the full resist value, they are at best a moderate contender. They're never a must have, or even important, unless your campaign is so narrow that a given damage type can just be taken for granted.

But like I said, it's your call. If your heart is set on nerfing resists, it seems like a reasonable way to do it.

 

[Eric Finley]

I use a slightly different fix. Most resists can only cancel half of the damage done by static effects, including ongoing damage, aura damage [which I'd suggest adding to your fix here, too], terrain, etc. Same basic purpose but with capping it at half the damage inflicted I ensure that the resist creates a favourable tactical decision space for the character... it doesn't nullify the decision space with regards to the resisted damage type entirely.

I am considering allowing certain 'canonical' types of resist, such as Genasi and Tiefling resistances, to be "superior" in that they aren't subject to this restriction. Because I, too, liked the image of (e.g.) our Genasi simply walking the length of the flaming corridor to menace the thugs at the other end. Probably this will mostly extend only to racial sources of resistance, although if you really care to put your armour slot into Armour of Fire Resistance or whatever, that's a pretty big investment too, so I might make that superior as well. But anything temporary - potions, Moment of Glory, etc - definitely hits the cap.

 

[CapnZapp]

@Llamas & Jester: the OP did start out acknowledging this was only an issue for some. Please don't clutter the thread with posts that do little more than suggest the subject is dropped.

@everybody else: I agree resistances are hugely powerful, or rather, that it is so very easy to come them by.

The way a 40 gp potion completely shuts down the ongoing part of dragon breath is a complete turn-off for me.

My preferred fix is to simply add 5 per tier to ongoing (typed) damage of any significant monster. In other words, about the same amount as you can expect your characters' resistance to be.

Don't do this for spam attacks (such as when you face five different monsters). Do this for singular attacks that are supposed to be frightening, not laughable (such as a Solo Dragon's breath attack).

 

[keterys]

Another interesting possibility is to make the ongoing damage bump up every failed save. Like the dragon's could start at 5, then 10, then 15... and those quickly get around resistance if you fail saves.

It'd encourage people to do things like make Heal checks for extra saves, to get it off someone

 

[malcolm_n]

Another interesting possibility is to make the ongoing damage bump up every failed save. Like the dragon's could start at 5, then 10, then 15... and those quickly get around resistance if you fail saves.

It'd encourage people to do things like make Heal checks for extra saves, to get it off someone

hmm, dragon fire as napalm... I like it. Gives me the feel of Wizard's fire from sword of truth (the books, not the series).