Quicken spell

[Mathew_Freeman]

I had a discussion with my older brother over New Year about the Quicken Spell metamagic feat and the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat.

I told him the story of Piratecat and the Half-Elemental Dragon with Quicken-Spell-Like-Ability using Elemental Swarm as a quickened action, and he disagreed with me about the legality of this.

I also brought up a quickened Call Lightning at this point.

So what I want to know is this:

Within the rules (and I'd like a direct quote, if possible), are you allowed to use Quicken Spell and Quicken Spell-Like Ability on spells that have a casting time of "Full round action" or longer, eg Call Lightning?

Thanks in advance, sorry if this sounds like a stupid question.

 

[hammymchamham]

Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. The character can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as the character casts a quickened spell. The character may only cast one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

It only makes a distinction of more than 1 full round. If it has a casting time of 1 full round or less, it can be quickened

 

[AGGEMAM]

Only spells with a casting time longer than a full-round action cannot be quickened.

From the SRD

Quicken Spell [Metamagic]

Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. The character can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as the character casts a quickened spell. The character may only cast one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

EDIT: a bit slow there ..

 

[AuraSeer]

According to the description of Quicken Spell: "A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round cannot be quickened." Elemental Swarm and Call Lightning have casting times of 10 minutes, so they cannot be quickened.

However, there is a potential loophole in the description of Quicken Spell-Like Ability. That feat does not contain the qualifying language I quoted above; it states only that the dragon can use one of its SLAs as a free action. A rules lawyer could argue that a dragon with Elemental Swarm as a SLA could quicken it with that feat, going strictly by the wording.

I would not allow this loophole in my game, because it seems contrary to the intent of the rule. YMMV.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Thank you very much. Exactly what I wanted. Extra credit to hammymchamham for getting in first...

So then, quickened call lightning is definitely out, but quickened elemental swarm for a dragon is still in, on a technicality. Hmm. OK, I'm going with my brother, it is something I will houserule out of my game from now on.

But it makes for great story hour reading!

Thanks everyone!

 

[AGGEMAM]

Hmm. OK, I'm going with my brother, it is something I will houserule out of my game from now on.

Not so quick there (pun intended). Quickened SLA's does not follow the restriction of QSp, and neither should it IMO.

Remember that SLA is usually standard actions so is Elemental Swarm SLA, so off course a quickened version should be a free action.

 

[AuraSeer]

So then, quickened call lightning is definitely out, but quickened elemental swarm for a dragon is still in, on a technicality.

Er, not quite. The point is that, strictly by the book, a dragon can quicken any of its spell-like abilities. If a dragon had Call Lightning as an SLA, it could quicken it, because the Quicken SLA feat does not have the casting time restriction.

This is particularly nasty because FRCS has a feat called Innate Spell, which lets you turn any spell you know into a spell-like ability. A creature with the dragon type and lots of spellcaster levels could contrive to quicken any spell that exists.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Hmm...I think I may stick with my houserule, but being as it's not likely to come up in my campaign (due to the limited number of times I DM) I can wait a bit longer and see what happens.

If I think it'll be unbalancing, I'll change it.

Thanks again for the answers guys!