Can a wizard cast a quickened Vampiric Touch, delivers that spell via touch, then casts another Vampiric Touch and deliver that spell via touch all in the same round? As I understood delivering a touch spell is part of the casting... so it would seem you could deliver a quickened touch spell as part of the quickened action. Anyone know if this is so? Thanks guys!
Quickened+normally cast touch spell, can you deliver both?
- Thread starter Arravis
- Start date
Marimmar@Home
First Post
I would require the wizard to make an additional touch attack for the quickened vampiric touch spell. allowing two spells with one attack roll seems wrong to me.
~Marimmar
~Marimmar
derelictjay
Explorer
As long as you have at least two attacks in a round, sure. It also has to be a full-round action because of this, so no moving in to touch the guy, you got to be standing there in the first place (and sucking up the damage). Might make some reach attack spellcasters, especially nasty.
EDIT: Otherwise you have to hold it to the next round.
EDIT: Otherwise you have to hold it to the next round.
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If you have two attacks in the round, and cast Spectral Hand first, then you can stay a distance and deliver the two touch attacks. This is something my group used once or twice and it worked ok, game-balance wise.
We don't normally use the quickened feat however, as there are so many other good feats we all like.
As a DM, I would allow it any of my games.
We don't normally use the quickened feat however, as there are so many other good feats we all like.
As a DM, I would allow it any of my games.
I understood that delivering a touch spell is not an action since you can move (move action), cast a spell (standard action), and touch (free action/non action?) the target, friendly or not.
rom the SRD, the combat section. Here is the entire thing
"Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally."
From WoTC's Rules of the Game article:
Touch Spells: The duration for a touch spell doesn't begin until the caster touches a subject and delivers the spell to a recipient. Attempting to touch a recipient requires a melee touch attack and that is part of the action used to cast the spell during the round when the spell is completed.
rom the SRD, the combat section. Here is the entire thing
"Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally."
From WoTC's Rules of the Game article:
Touch Spells: The duration for a touch spell doesn't begin until the caster touches a subject and delivers the spell to a recipient. Attempting to touch a recipient requires a melee touch attack and that is part of the action used to cast the spell during the round when the spell is completed.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
A quickened Vampiric Touch includes, in the spell, the ability to touch an opponent.
Therefore, by the rules on Touch spells, you could cast the quickened spell, move up to your movement (a single move action) and touch your target.
*Then* you may use your remaining standard action to cast a normal Vampiric Touch which includes the ability to touch your opponent. Of course, you're usually in a threatened area when you cast the second spell, and so must either cast defensively or suffer some AoOs.
Thus, you can deliver two Vampiric Touches per round.
Alternatively, you may cast a quickened Vampiric Touch and then move up to twice your movement (two move actions), and then touch your opponent.
Therefore, by the rules on Touch spells, you could cast the quickened spell, move up to your movement (a single move action) and touch your target.
*Then* you may use your remaining standard action to cast a normal Vampiric Touch which includes the ability to touch your opponent. Of course, you're usually in a threatened area when you cast the second spell, and so must either cast defensively or suffer some AoOs.
Thus, you can deliver two Vampiric Touches per round.
Alternatively, you may cast a quickened Vampiric Touch and then move up to twice your movement (two move actions), and then touch your opponent.
derelictjay
Explorer
Alright, I see your arguement, but your bending the rules (not breaking them). Your seeing the attack as part of the spell, kinda like a component of it. I still keep seeing it as a normal touch attack, using your normal attacks. In fact in the definition of the "touch spells in combat" the SRD makes a point that you can cast the spell, then move up to the opponent and then use the touch attack, therefore they are separate actions. So bacially your getting an extra action with casting a touch spell, nothing more. So, a quickened touch spell gives you a touch attack at your highest attack bonus, a seconed touch spell gives you an attack at your next bonus, that would still be my ruling.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
derelictjay said:
Not hardly. When casting a Touch spell, you get a single melee attack (NOT!! an attack action) in the same round as a free / non-action to deliver it.
That's because it is.
No, they aren't. At least, not in the same round that you cast the spell. If, however, you wish to deliver the spell in a later round, you must *then* use an attack action (either as a standard action or as part of a full-round action [full attack]) to deliver it.
FireLance
Legend
In my view, the melee touch attack to deliver the touch spell is part of casting the spell, in the same way that the ranged touch attack to deliver a ray or energy missile spell is part of the spell. Would you rule that a spellcaster using quickened acid splash and melf's acid arrow in the same round has to take a penalty to one of his ranged attacks? What about spells with multiple ranged attacks from a single casting such as scorching ray?
