Quintessential Paladin?

[Imhotepthewise]

Is Stonewall Jackson the Quintessential Paladin? Well, maybe not. My son and I were watching Gods and Generals last night. I mentioned to him that, to me, Jackson showed a lot of paladin behaviors. His unswerving sense of honor, love of family, dedication to duty, his assessment of his enemy, etc. I really did not know much about Jackson, and I would hope he was like he was portrayed in the movie. Movie was ok, overall. I found it slow and preachy in stages, but overall worth the watch.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

In my jaundiced opinion Stonewall Jackson is closer to a witchunter than a paladin. 'Raise the black flag and let none live' is not a paladin type quote! There are different flavors of religious fanaticism.

For historic paldin types I would look at calmer more rational folks, though the original 12 paladins were not quite as godly as some might think. (Just read Orlando Furioso... ) I would sooner consider 'Radical Jack' Durham as paladin material, largely because of the history that didn't happen because of him! There is however a Slavic folk hero (who's name escapes me) who is pretty darned on the money, right down to suddenly having a divine mount show up for him.

The Auld Grump

 

[Green Knight]

Huh. Wish you could remember this Slavik Folk Hero's name.

And for a moment there I thought you meant President Andrew Jackson. Considering what I know about that guy, I wouldn't say he was a Paladin. I remember a story about him inviting his friends to his Inauguration, where they had a big block of cheese on a table, and some of them got drunk and overturned the table with the cheese on it. Another bit was where he was playing cards with his friends in the kitchen of the White House, when a fight erupted for some reason and he had to jump out the window. My favorite story of him is when some goon tried to assassinate him. Walked right up to him, pulled a pistol, pointed it right at his face, and pulled the trigger.

But the gun jammed.

So Jackson then took the cane that he was holding in his hand at the time and beat the crap out of the guy who tried to shoot him.

Guy's certainly a character, but he's no Paladin. Of course, we're talking about Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, here, so nevermind.

 

[Wombat]

Gods & Generals, both as a book and as a movie, leaves a lot to be desired in the objectivity line. Both function more as a paean to a few Confederate generals than to any truly balanaced view of the war, the men involved, or the like. Read anything by Shelby Foote to get a much more even-handed approach.

And when it comes to paladins, I go straight to the source -- Charlamagne and the 12 Paladins (Peers).

This is why I try not to mix History and Fantasy

 

[Dirigible]

Orlando Furioso

What an awesome name

"Fear me ! I am Orlando Furioso, Master of the Twelve Flaming Dragon Fists Dojo ! Beware my Frenzied Incendiray Strike powers ! And ladies, watch out for the Smouldering Lips of Passion ! Ha-HA !"

For those of us who don;t live in the US, Jackson was a Confederate general, right?

 

[Agback]

For those of us who don;t live in the US, Jackson was a Confederate general, right?

That's right. A champion of slavery and an opponent of the authority of the US government. But I would stop short of describing him as either Chaotic or Evil in the D&D senses.

I have said before that the archetypes of the Paladin would seem to be Perceval, Lancelot, and Galahad, and to a lesser extent the Knight Hospitallers of St John.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Helfdan]

Another good example of a Paladin from history (though heavily romanticized) would be Spain's Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, better known as El Cid.

I heartily recommend the 1961 movie. It's got quotes such as:

"How can you stand against us? We are thirteen and you are alone?"
"What you do is against the laws of God. Were you thirteen times thirteen I would not be alone!"

and

"There is only one man in all Spain who would humble a king and share his water with a leper"

Again, very romanticized, but good RPG inspiration.

Helfdan

 

[Green Knight]

That's right. A champion of slavery and an opponent of the authority of the US government. But I would stop short of describing him as either Chaotic or Evil in the D&D senses.

That ... is a gross over-exaggeration. Not certain about Stonewall Jackson in specific, but not all Confederates were "Champions of Slavery". And one could say Washington was an opponent of the authority of the British government.

 

[med stud]

The only historical paladin would be someone with no political friends who died at a tragically young age by treason or poisoning. Politics and paladin- like behaviour doesnt mix.

Finding a general that wouldnt have commited one "evil" deed in his entire career is like finding a flying pig.

 

[Agback]

That ... is a gross over-exaggeration. Not certain about Stonewall Jackson in specific, but not all Confederates were "Champions of Slavery".

Even if they didn't approve of it, they were fighting to save it. Which makes them in a very practical sense its champions. You think no King's Champion ever fought a duel for a king he didn't like?

And one could say Washington was an opponent of the authority of the British government.

Of course. He was, wasn't he?

People like the US founding fathers, who put liberty ahead of authority, as the reason that the Law-Chaos axis is orthogonal to the Good-Evil axis. (And the fact that they were mostly very honourable men of their words, whereas D&D Law confounds truthfulness with toadying to the authorities, is a problem with the alignment system.)

Lawful Good != very Good.

Regards,


Agback