Quintessential Paladin?

[Agback]

The only historical paladin would be someone with no political friends who died at a tragically young age by treason or poisoning.

Joan of Arc, in short.

Regards,


Agback

 

[TheAuldGrump]

That ... is a gross over-exaggeration. Not certain about Stonewall Jackson in specific, but not all Confederates were "Champions of Slavery". And one could say Washington was an opponent of the authority of the British government.

Or at least an over simplification. In a lot of ways there were almost 3 wars going on: The South was fighting for the semi autonomous freedoms and rights that the states were originally concieved with.
The Federalist Government was fighting to prevent the secesion of the Southern states.
And the Northern peoples were fighting to end slavery.

Add in the economic motivations of both North and South and it becomes a murky grey on both sides. One Confederate state (Tennesee? Kentucky?) actually had more soldiers in the Northern army than in the Confederate.

The movie did bother me by showing the house slaves, who were kept relatively well, and the complete lack of any scenes involving the plantation slaves, who were often treated in an abominable fashion.

On the other hand I did like the film's portrayal of Joshua Chamberlain. (Then again, living in Maine, I may be a tad biased...)

The Auld Grump, who really did not like Stonewall Jackson...

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Another group that may have had some historic 'paladins' was the Knights of St. John of Malta, or the Knights Hospitaller. They got into a couple of conflicts with their fellow church knights the Templar on occassion for insisting on treating the wounded Saracens as well as the wounded Christians. The Templars objected on the grounds of fratenizing with the infidel, in spite of the fact that the Templars themselves were cooperating with the Hashashin.

Some of the Jesuits might well have been included among the 'paladin' heading, they once got kicked out of the Catholic Church for arguing that the American and South American Indians had souls... Others formed the core of both the Holy and the Spanish Inquisitions....

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Fictional, but the heart of a Paladin: Don Quixote de la Mancha!
'Hear me now, oh thou bleak and unbearable world
Thou art base and debauched as can be!
And a knight with his valors all bravely unfurled
Now hurls down his gauntlet to thee!

I am I, Don Quixote,
The Lord of LaMancha,
My destiny calls, and I go!
And the wild winds of fortune
Shall carry me onward ... To wither so ever they blow ...
Wither so ever they blow ...
Onward to glory I go!'

 

[S'mon]

That ... is a gross over-exaggeration. Not certain about Stonewall Jackson in specific, but not all Confederates were "Champions of Slavery". And one could say Washington was an opponent of the authority of the British government.

As a slaveholding rebel, clearly Washington was CE

 

[S'mon]

Another group that may have had some historic 'paladins' was the Knights of St. John of Malta, or the Knights Hospitaller. They got into a couple of conflicts with their fellow church knights the Templar on occassion for insisting on treating the wounded Saracens as well as the wounded Christians. The Templars objected on the grounds of fratenizing with the infidel, in spite of the fact that the Templars themselves were cooperating with the Hashashin.
[/i]

That would make a good D&D setting - 2 orders of religious knights (technically monks, but not in the D&D sense), both serving the same god, but one LE, one LG....

 

[med stud]

Another group that may have had some historic 'paladins' was the Knights of St. John of Malta, or the Knights Hospitaller. [/i]

The knights of Malta were one of the biggest groups of pirates in the Mediterreanen sea, making huge profit on plundering Muslim ships.
Again, in RL powert doesnt mix with Good alignment.

 

[hong]

So, anyone wanna take bets on how long before this thread gets closed?

Just as a sidenote before it happens, I might mention that Rommel was often called "Hitler's paladin", precisely because (to the Allies) he exemplified the traditional martial virtues of honour in battle, dash and panache. That's even though he was serving an indisputably evil regime.

 

[Agback]

So, anyone wanna take bets on how long before this thread gets closed?

No that you have invoked Godwin's Law? Not long.

Just as a sidenote before it happens, I might mention that Rommel was often called "Hitler's paladin", precisely because (to the Allies) he exemplified the traditional martial virtues of honour in battle, dash and panache. That's even though he was serving an indisputably evil regime.

Somehow I doubt that they who did this were D&D players. Perhaps they were unaware of the alignment restrictions for paladins.

Don't act all surprised when you discover that Benedictine monks have been nerfed even worse than whatever was most recently hit with the nerf stick. The Church authorities who named them were jocks (though their personal hygiene probably qualified them to be mistaken for geeks) and probably didn't realise what real monks can do.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Sanackranib]

Another good example of a Paladin from history (though heavily romanticized) would be Spain's Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, better known as El Cid.
I heartily recommend the 1961 movie. It's got quotes such as:
"How can you stand against us? We are thirteen and you are alone?"
"What you do is against the laws of God. Were you thirteen times thirteen I would not be alone!"
and
"There is only one man in all Spain who would humble a king and share his water with a leper"
Again, very romanticized, but good RPG inspiration.
Helfdan

for those who havn't seen it this IS A MUST SEE movie.
who else could ride into battle {dead} when all seems lost and make his enimies break before him?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

The knights of Malta were one of the biggest groups of pirates in the Mediterreanen sea, making huge profit on plundering Muslim ships.
Again, in RL powert doesnt mix with Good alignment.

They didn't start out as such, but they certainly became so, about the same time the Templars became a major force the Pope loosened the Knights Hospitaller from their oaths of poverty, in return for a portion being 'kicked up th ladder'. The Knights Hospitaller have gone back to their original name, and are around (sort of) to this day. (More as a reward than as any armed force however.)

Now the Knights of the Cross were just about the most vile group that ever swung leg across a horse in the name of the Carpenter.

The fall from grace of the Knights of Saint John of the Hospital is both long and depressing, but let us not disparage those who founded the order, and road with the pilgrims not as an army, but as guards... Unpaid at that.

The Knights Templar made the king of France come over all greedy like, and are no more. The disappearance of their treasure has been the basis of more than on conspiracy theory.

The Auld Grump