Quiver of Elhonna (sp?)

[Damon Griffin]

As far as I'm concerned, it's a magic item designed to hold certain things.

You're free to interpret it that way, and I won't say you're wrong; hopefully you will extend me the same courtesy.

The Quiver is not a general purpose storage device. It gives fairly clear restrictions on what goes in each compartment.

Actually, it gives fairly clear examples of the kinds of things most commonly stored in it, in order to indicate the number of those things it will hold. Nowhere does the description explicitly state that other objects cannot be placed into it instead.

Since a coil of rope is not an object of the same general size and shape as a javelin, it follows from the item's description that I will not be able to store up to 18 coils of rope in the second compartment; it does not necessarily follow that I cannot store one coil of rope (or indeed any combination of objects whose total volume doesn't exceed that of 18 javelins, and which can be packed into an area shaped to hold 18 javelins), though again you are free to make that interpretation without being labeled incorrect.

Yes, the quiver was intended to hold arrows, javelins and bows when it was created. So what? Cigar boxes were created to hold cigars (or some number of objects the size and shape of cigars), and you can put almost anything, or any collection of things, into one, so long as the box's volume is not exceeded.

But cigar boxes aren't magical! Again, so what? I'm trying to see this from the point of view of both the spellcaster who enchants the item, and the person who will be using the item. As far as I can tell, it doesn't benefit either one of them to go to the extra trouble of limiting the space within the quiver to just certain specific objects.

If the extra restrictions benefit no one, why are they there? For that matter, HOW are they there? I can't think of a spell offhand that does anything like this -- set up a forcefield that will pass one specific type of object and block all others -- so I can't think what could be used as the basis for such a restriction on the quiver. Limited Wish?

 

[Hypersmurf]

it does not necessarily follow that I cannot store one coil of rope (or indeed any combination of objects whose total volume doesn't exceed that of 18 javelins, and which can be packed into an area shaped to hold 18 javelins)...

Ah, but what shape is an area shaped to hold 18 javelins?

It could be a cylinder, approximately the diameter of a javelin, and approximately the length of 18 javelins laid end-to-end.

Like an extra-dimensional Pez dispenser.

Just like I wouldn't let someone store a thousand gold pieces in the extra-dimensional 100-bolt magazine of the self-loading crossbow from A&EG, I wouldn't let someone store the wrong type of items in a Quiver of Ehlonna.

-Hyp.

 

[Damon Griffin]

Ah, but what shape is an area shaped to hold 18 javelins?

It could be a cylinder, approximately the diameter of a javelin, and approximately the length of 18 javelins laid end-to-end.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Such an arrangement does not describe a quiver of any sort, any more than a carboard tube one cigar in diameter and two dozen cigars long would be considered a cigar box.

Just like I wouldn't let someone store a thousand gold pieces in the extra-dimensional 100-bolt magazine of the self-loading crossbow from A&EG, I wouldn't let someone store the wrong type of items in a Quiver of Ehlonna.

"Wrong type of item"; not extending me reciprocal courtesy, then.

Your analogy is flawed. I wouldn't allow gold pieces to be stored that way either, NOT because of some artificial restriction the item's creator dreamed up for no apparent reason, but because the physical dimensions of the feed mechanism would not allow it.

I can put rope, changes of clothes, bowmaking tools, food or books into a (presumably) rectangular compartment designed for javelins, without changing the shape of that compartment along any dimension, or inhibiting its ability to hold javelins the next time it is used; placing gold pieces into a mechanism (extradimensional or not) designed to feed crossbow bolts would require completely reshaping the mechanism to the point where it could no longer fulfull its original purpose.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now you're just being ridiculous. Such an arrangement does not describe a quiver of any sort...

Hmm? It's called a Quiver because it looks like one and it holds arrows.

The internal dimensions obviously aren't the same as a normal quiver, because you can't fit a shortspear into a normal quiver.

It produces the item(s) you request from extra-dimensional space on command. They aren't sitting there grabbable. You don't reach into it like a bag of holding. You command it to produce "a javelin", and it gives you a javelin.

(Note that by the wording of the item, it can't actually be used as a quiver, since command-word activation is a standard action unless the item description states otherwise... which it doesn't.)

The second compartment can hold up to 18 items of the same general size and shape as a javelin... not 1 item of the same general size and shape as 18 javelins.

-Hyp.

 

[Orm]

(Note that by the wording of the item, it can't actually be used as a quiver, since command-word activation is a standard action unless the item description states otherwise... which it doesn't.)

In our group we try to keep it simple: It is possible to use it as a quiver, otherwise you would have to run around with at least two quivers. One simply to store your stuff, one for the fight. And then a high level archer spends four rounds to shoot arrows and twenty rounds to re-stock his quiver. C´mon, thats ridiculous.
In addition, we allow for each compartment to hold either 60 arrows or 18 javelins or 6 bows.
In the end, it´s magic.

Just my two cents
Orm

 

[Hypersmurf]

And then a high level archer spends four rounds to shoot arrows and twenty rounds to re-stock his quiver.

Not at all - the Quiver produces "any stored items" you wish on command. So you can command it to produce twenty arrows... but since there is no "real space" in the Quiver for them to occupy, you either end up holding them or dumping them on the ground. Which is just fine for restocking your mundane quiver, but not much use during combat.

-Hyp.

 

[Orm]

So, how long would it take in combat to produce a bundle of twenty arrows, grab them and put them into the normal quiver?

 

[Black Omega]

It's not come up yet, but I'd probably let bundles of arrows be stored in the javelin splot. It's close enough. Then when it's time to reload the arrow alot, get an arrow bundle, the switch it's slot. Probably take a full round action.