R&C: Halflings...

[Voss]

FWIW (probably not much), I think your position is ridiculous, not the designer's. It's never been inferred that halflings are anything other than normal flesh and blood, which implies certain mass/power restrictions. It breaks the suspension of disbelief when those numbers are "just off" by a factor of 10+.

And adding all of a foot makes a difference in some way? They're still easy meat by the same argument.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Yes, but the rules allow you to have a level 1 Str 16 Halfling fighter - and at that point, the physics do begin to strain belief. 3' halflings worked when you didn't allow them to be anything but rogues, but if you allow them freedom, it does seem odd.

Perhaps this can be resolved by thinking of the ability scores as abstractions, rather than concrete aspects of the character?

Take HP, for example. There has been all sorts of hubbub the past few months over the idea of HP, and what the number really represents. This is because HP supposedly represents a good deal of things: actual health, the ability to turn aside blows, luck, etc.

Perhaps ability scores could represent similar abstractions? The Str 16 halfling doesn't appear as strong as a Str 16 human, but he knows how to use this proportionate strength against others, knows how to apply proper leverage in instances that require strength, and so on.

 

[Wolfspider]

I guess Beowulf being able to wrestle and defeat Grendel, a giant much larger than him, would also be hard for the developers to envision....

So much for classic heroism.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Even fantasy must obey logic and versimilitude.

Yet, oddly, it's never been an issue since Gygax designed the game in 1974.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Perhaps this can be resolved by thinking of the ability scores as abstractions, rather than concrete aspects of the character?

Following on this, the game already takes this into account with encumbrance; a Str 16 halfling and a Str 16 human are not equal, save in terms of their Str Bonus- the halfling cannot carry or press as much as the human, but proportionally speaking, they both gain the same advantage from their strength.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Yet, oddly, it's never been an issue since Gygax designed the game in 1974.

Maybe peoples are just too.... uneasy, to be polite, about going against Gygax's often arbitrary, half-baked and not perfect ideas?

I have often the feeling that saying a bad things against him is a Grave Sin. >>;

 

[Shieldhaven]

The change to halfling size is exactly what I had hoped to see, for exactly the reasons the developers have stated. The Small PC races in my homebrewed campaign follow the size models of 4e halflings.

Haven

 

[Klaus]

Wow. This is a great book, but one of the many things that jumped out at me was this bit explaining why halflings got taller...



That's all kinds of awesome. The guys that can create or sustain the other fantasy tropes of real gods granting spells to clerics, fully fledged colleges of magic, dragons, death knights, vast empires, grand wars, and entire new worlds filled with magical creatures of all types and kinds... and these guys can't wrap their head around a halfling that's 3' and 35lbs.

I just find it funny that it's not an issue of racial overlap, competing mechanical niche, or anything related to the game itself or the fantasy genre as a whole, but these guys can't imagine or believe a halfling of that stature.

How ridiculous.

To those who think 4' is too tall for a halfling:

Remember this dude?

His name is Martin Klebba. He's an actor, stuntman, currently holds the record for Fastest Little Person on Earth. And he's 4'1".

 

[breschau]

I find it hard to believe that on average, women will be as strong as men.

Bring back female strength limits in 4e

Although I'm not advocating this in the least. It does bring up a great point: Why are their some real world physics and biology issues that are being used as a basis for changes made to a fantasy game while others are not?

In the real world a preschool sized person is hopelessly outmatched by someone twice the height, but in that same world women are (on average) weaker than men, but that's not being used to bring back caps. Why one bit of realism, but not the other?

This is fantasy people. Dragons and fireballs for gods' sake. Not a study of leverage.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Although I'm not advocating this in the least. It does bring up a great point: Why are their some real world physics and biology issues that are being used as a basis for changes made to a fantasy game while others are not?

In the real world a preschool sized person is hopelessly outmatched by someone twice the height, but in that same world women are (on average) weaker than men, but that's not being used to bring back caps. Why one bit of realism, but not the other?

This is fantasy people. Dragons and fireballs for gods' sake. Not a study of leverage.

Because the differences in human genders are finaly quite minor, and oftem used to enforce sexist goals, while this is more drastic and prononced?