R&C: Halflings...

[KrazyHades]

Even fantasy must obey logic and versimilitude.

Within the accepted assumptions, we do.

It's just that those assumptions are ridiculous

 

[Spatula]

Short races - gone! (adult humans can beat up human children, therefore adults of a Small-size race cannot compete with adult humans)

Giant insects - gone! (it is physically impossible for a solid creature without an internal skeleton to exist even at Medium size without collapsing under its own weight)

Flying dragons - gone! (something that large & heavy would not be able to achieve flight with wings)

and so on.

 

[JohnSnow]

Short races - gone! (adult humans can beat up adult children, therefore adults of a Small-size race cannot compete with adult humans)

Michele Carter has confirmed that halflings are still small. They're just not AS small.

It's a question of believability. Three feet is awfully short, whereas close to four feet is less so. Dwarves can be just slightly taller than halflings, but much more stout and stocky. That leaves a fairly large size discrepancy between the tall races (humans, elves, dragonborn, tieflings & eladrin) and the short races (dwarves and halflings).

One of the most ridiculous pictures I ever saw was in the 2e Player's Handbook. It was an elven woman surrounded by dwarven males. Their heights were so close that they seemed to be about the same height - and that just doesn't look right.

 

[KingCrab]

Sorry, now you're going too far the other way - there are five foot tall humans all over the place. So, things that are 5' tall fully grown are not "dwarves".

I know some 5' tall people in real life who get called 'dwarf.' I see nothing wrong with 5' dwarves. Their body shape is different. A little shorter than the average human, a lot stockier than the average human.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

It's kinda funny to read this discussion after having read that a chimpanzee, while being (on average) as tall and as heavy as a normal human, has roughly 5 times the upper body strength of a human.

Five times. Raw muscle stength.

Kinda funny, then to make such a fuss about halflings having (on average) the same strength as a human.

But as was noted...suspension of disbelief is one of the foggiest lines in RPGs ever.

 

[pawsplay]

I just find it funny that it's not an issue of racial overlap, competing mechanical niche, or anything related to the game itself or the fantasy genre as a whole, but these guys can't imagine or believe a halfling of that stature.

It's not a matter of believing in a halfling of that stature, it's in believing in a halfling of that stature not getting kicked around like a football. I don't think a creature the size of my 2 1/2 year old has a realistic chance against a gnoll. Or an angry baker with a rolling pin.

 

[Abstraction]

In the real world, it is physically impossible to jump 20 feet straight up. It is physically impossible for a human to punch through steel.

Why is it so unbelievable for a halfling with the MAXIMUM possible starting strength of 16 but not for the human with 18?

 

[Cadfan]

In the real world, it is physically impossible to jump 20 feet straight up. It is physically impossible for a human to punch through steel.

Why is it so unbelievable for a halfling with the MAXIMUM possible starting strength of 16 but not for the human with 18?

In D&D world, it is ALSO impossible to jump 20 feet straight up, at least without epic level abilities. That's a jump DC of 80, or if you haven't got a running start, 160.

http://www.souzek.com/images/veronika/bluejay_leaning_three_feet.jpg

Found that on yahoo images. She looks like she could whup us all. Probably has levels in monk.

 

[Driddle]

I wonder if that means that the mechanics for giants are going to be redone as well.

Oh, man, wouldn't that be a hoot? The design of an erect humanoid starts running into problems even at twice normal height. Can you imagine how wonky it would be if they tried to justify the biology of someone 20-foot-tall or more?

Posted on a similar thread, but worth repeating:
Yes, humans who inherit the genetic markers for dwarfish (aka "little people") may have certain average-size adult body parts. There are a few variants on the condition. A quick perusal for "dwarfism" in Wikipedia provides a decent beginner's overview.

However, if you're trying to reduce a full-size human to half his height, and still maintain the original proportions, the math (squares, surface area and other details a mathematician can better explain) will result in a much lighter, thinner humanoid. Take a 6-foot-tall adult weighing 160 pounds, for example. Shrink him to only 3-foot-tall with the same leg-to-torso-to-arm-to-head proportions, and he's gonna weigh 20 pounds.

Sounds ridiculous, I know. But that's what they're talking about with halflings, I think.

I'm with the original poster on this -- real biology is a pretty darned silly reason to change racial design in a fantasy game. I hope they don't start looking too closely at dragons, what with their fire-breathing and winged flight and whatnot....

 

[Driddle]

Merely to provide material for discussion or curiosity...

Here are some measurements of a human male shrunk or enlarged evenly while maintaining his original proportions:

8'2" ... 400#
7'7" ... 320#
6'10" ... 240#
6'5" ... 200#
base: 6'0" ... 160#
5'6" ... 120#
5'1" ... 100#
4'1" ... 50#