Race Creation Help

[Mygrrd]

Hey, I'm trying to create a Half-Nymph racial template that's LA 1 and I would appreciate some opinions on what I have and what should be changed.

I was thinking that I could remove the +2 Wis if it's too OP and hopefully that'll make it better. I kinda took the special ability from an existing Half Nymph template somewhere cause I liked the flavor. Also thanks in advance for any help! : )

Half-Nymph Template
+ 6 Cha, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Str
Low-Light Vision
30-ft Movement
+4 Racial bonus on saves vs mundane and magical diseases
Type: Humanoid
Awesome Beauty: This ability affects all humanoids within 30-ft of a half-nymph. Those who look directly at the nymph must succeed at a Will saving throw (DC 10+ 1/2 HD+ cha mod) or be shaken for 1 minute. A creature that remains in range and continues to look at the half nymph must continue to make saving throws against this ability. A successful saving throw while already shaken does not free the creature from the affect of the initial failed save. A failed saving throw while shaken resets the duration of the shaken condition to start from that round. A half nymph can supress or resume this ability as a free action. This is a mind-affecting, fear effect.
Favored Class: Druid

 

[Mad Hamish]

a) are you sure you're in the right forum (this is Pathfinder) and favoured class doesn't work that way anymore (any character picks a favoured class rather than it being racially based
b) as I understand it there are no level adjusted character races in Pathfinder
c) +6 charisma results in +3 to all saving throws against spells from a sorceror. it's utterly huge.
d) shaken imposes -2 on all saves and attacks ...

way too much to be balanced.

 

[Walking Dad]

...
b) as I understand it there are no level adjusted character races in Pathfinder
...[/QUOTE]

There was some LA talk in the new race playtest, though.

 

[Mygrrd]

Yes, LA/CR+1 template and yes Pathfinder. I didn't realize favored class changed so much. I really wish that Advanced Races book they're releasing in April was already out so I could use the creation system from that but I'll have to wait for that.

How about +4 cha, +2 Dex, -2str and what would you suggest for a condition that would fit better?

Edit- Or instead of Awesome Beauty being a daze/stun effect it could just give cha mod as a deflection bonus to AC like Unearthly Grace, and so being a named bonus it won't stack with similar effects.

Edit #2 - Converting this into a base race with no CR and a 1 level racial class would be cool too but I'm not sure how to take a stab at a racial class as I don't have Savage Species.

 

[N'raac]

Other races get a net +2 stat bonus, so a net +6 seems pretty powerful by comparison.

A save every round which resets duration to 10 rounds seems like a condition that won't end as long as the target remains in combat with the character. The AC bonus also seems pretty powerful, especially combined with the +4 stat bonus.

Compared to a Tiefling or an Aasimar, it seems this character has more powerful abilities and much better stat bonuses. I'd compare it to the Drow Noble, which would not be a L1 classed PC.

 

[Mygrrd]

Is there any special ability anyone could suggest instead to keep some of the flavor of the nymph but not be too unbalanced? Maybe a 1/day spell like ability like the Aasimar and Tieflings? Or maybe change the type to Fey instead of humanoid and give it Iron Vulnerability but no DR. I keep hitting idea roadblocks so suggestions are welcome as well as critiques.

Also are the stats fine at +4cha, +2dex, -2str?

 

[N'raac]

I'd say +2 CHA, +2 DEX, -2 STR (which gets us back to the typical racial net +2). The special ability could be modified to 1 minute maximum duration, with any successful save ending the effect, and unable to affect the target for 24 hours thereafter.

An AC modifier of half the stat bonus might work, but I don't know that I like adding a "half the stat modifier" mechanic. Maybe the full stat modifier, but only effective against humanoid creatures.

Alternatively, perhaps an effect something like the Witch Charm hex, which shifts the reaction of the target one step more favourable.

If Fey is attempting to weaken it, I'd suggest it be considered both Fey and Humanoid. Adding iron vulnerability and a few small spell-like effects would probably round it out nicely.

 

[Mygrrd]

Half-Nymph Template CR 1
+2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Str
Low-Light Vision
30-ft Movement
+4 Racial bonus on saves vs mundane and magical diseases
Type: Humanoid
Charming Beauty: This ability affects one animal or humanoid creature within 30 feet. This improves the attitude of an animal or humanoid creature by 1 step, as if the Half-Nymph had successfully used the Diplomacy skill. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Half Nymph's charisma modifier. A will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + cha mod) negates this effect. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this effect again for 24 hours.

Edit - What about this as a CR +1? How does it compare to the base pathfinder races? How about to the Lycanthrope CR 1 template that exists?

Edit 2 - How many points does this add up to in Golden's Race Creation Guide? How does it hold up to the Advanced Race Guide Playtest point buy system?

 

[paradox42]

Golden's Guide is skewed towards low power, and is far too conservative in its projections of what actual bonuses mean in a real game. Don't use it unless you plan to tweak it heavily.

The Advanced Races Guide isn't out yet, but its playtest is; you can download it at Paizo's website (sorry, I don't have a link handy ATM, maybe somebody else does). Level Adjustment does go away in PF, but the playtest does indeed have something similar mechanically- and a race built on 20 "points" (the "Advanced" tier) works out to be the new equivalent of LA +1, more or less.

For a race built on 20 points, a CHA bonus of +4 is fine- don't worry too much about it. +2 to the save DC of spells cast by a Sorcerer or Oracle may look like a lot to people who are used to low-level games, but trust me when I say it won't matter much once you get past level 6 or so. Especially since it affects spells the character casts, but not saves the character makes unless he or she takes a Revelation or gets a Bloodline ability that adds CHA bonus to saves.

For proof that +4 isn't necessarily a huge deal, just look at the Goblin, which is in Bestiary 1 and is considered a 10-point race in the Advanced Races Guide (meaning LA +0). Now, it's true that lots of people consider Goblin overpowered, but again, I'll bet they've never played one in a game above 5th level. Numbers may look impressive on paper, but once you run them with other people in a fluid and constantly-changing real-game situation, they start to look a bit different.

For your Half-Nymph, you could go Advanced tier in ARG terms and use:
Fey type (1 point- if you want it above Humanoid. This grants the Low-Light Vision trait)
Standard Modifiers (0 points, total ability mods +2 DEX, +2 WIS -2 STR)
Advanced Charisma twice (8 points, total ability mods +4 CHA, +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 STR)
+4 save against diseases (not a listed ability, but looks pretty similar to Plagueborn, so perhaps count that twice for a total of 4 points)

Your original Awesome Beauty ability is difficult to gauge, but it's clearly less powerful than Frightful Gaze (an Advanced ability costing 6 points that gives the race a Gaze attack causing paralysis from fear in targets failing the save). By contrast, Awesome Beauty is a constant supernatural ability, afflicts a target with the Shaken condition (a penalty, but a fairly minor one as conditions go- certainly not as nasty as paralysis), and you can't use it selectively- meaning that while it's on, your allies will have to save against it too. Now, a different ability (Terrifying Croak) costing 2 points, causes the Shaken condition for 1d4 rounds, and can only be used 1/hour- but that ability has no listed range limit, and can make already-Shaken targets Frightened (your Awesome Beauty ability as written cannot). So I'd think an estimate of 3-4 points for Awesome Beauty as written is a decent one.

That gives you a total point value of 16 or 17 points for this race so far. You could probably reasonably give it one more Advanced Charisma for a total of +6 CHA, if you really wanted to, though it's true that that does start to get excessively one-trick-pony.

 

[Mygrrd]

I downloaded the Advanced Race Guide Playtest and have been giving a look. I liked the Awesome Beauty as intended but I also like the Charming Beauty (based off the Witch's Charm Hex as suggested) I proposed later in the post and now I'm not sure which I like better, lol. Charming Beauty seems a lil less powerful than Awesome Beauty at probably 2 or 3 points, IMO.

20 points/Advanced is the new CR/LA 1? Is that the general consensus now?

Also, thank you very much with the help!! : )