Races and Classes cover on Amazon!

[Lonely Tylenol]

I envy your logical ability. That copy on my bookshelf must be an illusion.

ENWorld: where half-joking commentary will get you insulted by a random stranger from the internet.

It wasn't always this way.

 

[grimslade]

ENWorld: where half-joking commentary will get you insulted by a random stranger from the internet.

It wasn't always this way.

I guess you could imagine he insulted the half that wasn't a joke. ;P

I think a lot of people are getting more worked up over this than they need to.

WotC is releasing these books to make money and pimp 4E. There is nothing wrong with either. If the product is good, it will sell. If it is not good and doesn't sell, 5E will not have a WP series. If an advertisement for 4E with concept art and the developmen of a new edition is not your cup o' tea, give it a pass. No harm, no foul. In fact, you will be exerting market pressure for WotC not repeat this niche product.

Also, not everyone who is asking for clarification or details of content is slamming 4E or WotC. There is a lot to be said for a better presentation of the content of these books to fans. Answers to these questions might help make the purchase decision for a lot of people not just the ones asking the questions. In fact, they might generate more sales from the improved marketing so that WotC will repeat this niche product for 5E.

Scott Rouse or any other WotC staffer who is willing to stand the heat in here:
You might need to think of two seperate prongs to your marketing one for the Ubergeeks like us who thrash out everything whispered or hinted at by anyone even tenuously connected to WotC and the rest of the gaming and non-gaming public.
For us Ubergeeks:
Give us a rough sense of what will be in the book, Concept Art, Essays of development philosophy, design timeline, early playtest results, actual rules or statblocks? Maybe a little clearer product back copy? Will there be game usable content inside, a sample character or mock character sheet.
For the merely geek,
Make sure the cover states that it is a 'concept' preview not an actual rules preview. Unless, of course I'm wrong and there is playable content in there, in which case let us know that.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Hell, I'll probably end up getting a leatherbound copy when that's available too. It's just how I do things.

Oh, I know I will. But as my ex pointed out to me (in a kindly manner when we were teasing each other...), i have waaaay more money than brains.

Givemegivemegiveme.

I like da shiny.

 

[Fifth Element]

I really don't know what you're arguing about. I've made it very clear that I don't believe that everyone who buys this product, or wants to buy it, is necessarily a sucker.

You appear to be saying the fact WotC is even selling this book is an insult to its customers. That's what I'm arguing about.

 

[Fifth Element]

ENWorld: where half-joking commentary will get you insulted by a random stranger from the internet.

It wasn't always this way.

Perhaps your half-joking commentary received a half-joking reply?

A half-joking insult is better than a human insult, don't you think?

 

[Piratecat]

Folks, don't phrase your comments so that they're likely to be considered insulting, and don't take personal affront when none is intended. Being nice to each other isn't all that hard. It just takes a little bit of consideration.

 

[Imaro]

I still contend that majority of people who are being "negative" want clarification on what's in these books. I've seen a ton of differing interpretations on what exactly these books are.

Are they a history of classes and monsters under D&D thus making the books 90% stuff we already know with maybe 10% new stuff?

Are they previews of the fluff of 4th ed.?

Are they insights into the design processes of 3.5 & 4th? Just 4th? Or again throughout D&D's history?

Design comentary on things that are actually in the 4th ed. game?

New artwork/ recycled art with a few new pieces sprinkled in?

For all those so quick to jump on the "don't buy them if you don't want them.", I say how can I make an informed decision without information on what these books contain.

Apparently you all have some kind of insider information...or are psychic and already know what's in the books (though to date I've seen wildly varying assumptions on this board about what these books will contain). For me, I'd like to know what I'm buying before laying my money down.

Scott Rouse was asked repeatedly to clarify what information these books will contain and, all of a sudden it's too much negativity...Please. His silence leaves me with the impression that these books will have alot more recycled and even useless information and art (so far as actual material that will see it's way into 4th ed. is concerned).

 

[grimslade]

I still contend that majority of people who are being "negative" want clarification on what's in these books. I've seen a ton of differing interpretations on what exactly these books are.

For all those so quick to jump on the "don't buy them if you don't want them.", I say how can I make an informed decision without information on what these books contain.

Apparently you all have some kind of insider information...or are psychic and already know what's in the books (though to date I've seen wildly varying assumptions on this board about what these books will contain). For me, I'd like to know what I'm buying before laying my money down.

Very true about the needing clarification about content. There have been dribs and drabs of information in many different sources about these books. It would be nice to have a firm description of what the book is.

Scott Rouse was asked repeatedly to clarify what information these books will contain and, all of a sudden it's too much negativity...Please. His silence leaves me with the impression that these books will have alot more recycled and even useless information and art (so far as actual material that will see it's way into 4th ed. is concerned).

Wow. I must be imagining the negativity with even handed responses like this. The guy pops into a thread on the weekend and he isn't answering fast enough. Especially after being criticized for not marketing the products correctly. I might be willing to let him slide a little on response time, the book doesn't come out until Dec 18th. If we want a polished and descriptive blurb to make an informed decision, we might have to wait a little. Who knows maybe we can steer some of the marketing. I wouldn't expect a good preview of the preview books for 2 or 3 weeks. We'll get the coming next month blurb and maybe an excerpt in Novembers spotlight article. Plenty of time to mull over before the book is released.

 

[Klaus]

1-3 is pretty spot on. It is becoming apparent that our positioning of the books is off and we need to demonstrate why we think the books are worth picking up.

Scott,

the Visual Guide idea is pretty awesome, and it makes use of lots of art WotC already has lying around (even the sketches that were discarded along the way become valuable as a roadmap to how 4e turned out).

Another idea is to turn these books into a halfway point between 3.5 and 4e. For instance, I don't know if the crunch of the races will be in it. But it were, it'd be a great idea to put, for instance, the gnome entry from the MM in Races & Classes, as an example of how those expanded monster entries will look like. Maybe druids are not in the PHB1, so Races & Classes who how to assemble a druid-like character with the PHB tools.

 

[tensen]

Are they insights into the design processes of 3.5 & 4th? Just 4th? Or again throughout D&D's history?

Design comentary on things that are actually in the 4th ed. game?

These are the things I envisioned it as based on the past spiel. If it is, I imagine it would be a great thing for 3rd party publishers and freelancers to pick up, so that they can stay consistent with the design ideals behind 4th edition. Things that I'm sure a great number of other publishers weren't, because we didn't always have a reason on why the 3rd edition designers did certain things.