races of destiny --has D&D 3.5 jumped the shark?

[Lonely Tylenol]

If you don't think the Draconomicon is "anything special", then you don't know what good material is. Maybe you don't have a use for a dragon-centric book in your game, but that doesn't do anything to diminish the amazing quality of that book; probably the best WotC has put out in years.

As for Libris Mortis, it always amazes me how much people get caught up in the latin translation of the title. They won't even give the book a chance just b/c some latin-speaking sage says the translation of the title isn't accurate enough. Sigh.

Hey, neat! I agree with Ogrork on something. Draconomicon is my favourite WotC book, for many reasons, not least of which is the impression I got that they spent more than five minutes putting it together.

Now, let us ponder for a moment: how many names for things in D&D have, over the years, been bastardized from some foreign tongue, and nobody's cared? Or maybe one guy cared but couldn't convince anyone else that leaving a vowel out of the name for a Norwegian goat-hag is tantamount to blasphemy. Next, let's consider how many names for things in D&D are just made-up words with a tenuous relationship to English phonetic etymology, at best. Then, consider which sound more dumb, if you happen to care. Finally, consider whether any of this has any bearing at all on whether Libris Mortis was a good book.

If I wanted a hobby in which I needed to care about Latin usage, I'd take up translation.

 

[MDSnowman]

Around this time last year I was condemning almost everything that WotC was putting out. The Book of Exalted Deeds felt forced, and The Complete Warrior's collection of "new" prestige classes were reprints from the splat books and back issues of Dragon. Needless to say I was purchasing most of my books from other publishers.

You know what happened since then?

Draconomicon and Unearthed Arcana.

They restored my faith in WotC's ability to put out good work. Since then they've put out the uninspired race books and environment books that make one wonder if they're out of ideas again. But I've noticed a silver lining, Complete Divine and Complete Arcane weren't as bad as Complete Warrior, and Eberron is a breath of much needed fresh air. Liber Mortis proved to be entertainging. So far however the only thing that's knocked my socks off was Eberron.

Then I realized the fallacy in my own thinking. I've thought, and I think a lot of people on these boards share this problem, that everything from WotC has to be either gold or crap. But at the end of the day they're just like evey other publisher, they're going to drop some real stinkers, especially with the whole book of the month approach, but they're going to release some real thought provoking books too, and I like that. When it comes to books I think are illconcieved guess what I'll do?

I won't buy it.

That's why I don't own a copy of Races of Destiny.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

If you don't think the Draconomicon is "anything special", then you don't know what good material is.

I do, and it is not.

As for Libris Mortis, it always amazes me how much people get caught up in the latin translation of the title. They won't even give the book a chance just b/c some latin-speaking sage says the translation of the title isn't accurate enough. Sigh.

In this case, the lousy title matches the lousy content.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I do, and it is not.

Due respect, but its beginning to look like your opinion is in the minority. I, too, agree with many of the others and find Draconomicon a well-written and inspired work. It is almost useless in my current campaign, but that does little to detract from the quality of the work itself. You are, of course, allowed your opinion. I would not try to sway you as you seem adamant in your disdain for the book. I might ask that you give it another look at some point and see if you cant find some nuggets of gold in there that would at least inspire you in your games, if nothing else.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Draconomicon and Unearthed Arcana.

They restored my faith in WotC's ability to put out good work. Since then they've put out the uninspired race books and environment books that make one wonder if they're out of ideas again. But I've noticed a silver lining, Complete Divine and Complete Arcane weren't as bad as Complete Warrior, and Eberron is a breath of much needed fresh air. Liber Mortis proved to be entertainging. So far however the only thing that's knocked my socks off was Eberron.

I pretty much agree with everything here, except I didn't like Libris Mortis very much at all, but I loved Frostburn.

And I thought Draconomicon rocked. Tons of info on D&D dragons and how to make them even more formidable and interesting. My only disappointment was that the book only covered dragons from the D&D canon perspective. I would've liked to see some coverage of dragons as they appear in myth, legend, literature, movies, and TV.

 

[spigadang]

I DO wish they'd do a complete Wild guide. They need that more. D r u i d s, Rangers and even to a small degree, Barbarians are SO getting shafted by these complete books.

I find the CD a book more for s then any other class. ANd i like alot of the CD. Best part was see Chart on PAGE (XXX). that is a classic.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

I pretty much agree with everything here, except I didn't like Libris Mortis very much at all, but I loved Frostburn.

I also liked Frostburn.

And I thought Draconomicon rocked. Tons of info on D&D dragons and how to make them even more formidable and interesting. My only disappointment was that the book only covered dragons from the D&D canon perspective. I would've liked to see some coverage of dragons as they appear in myth, legend, literature, movies, and TV.

I share your disappointment, but mine is more pronounced; I do not like the idea that dragons are polymorphing sorcerers who sire children with humanoids. I want Smaug, not that piffle.

 

[MDSnowman]

My main complaint with Draconomicon was that the last half of the book was filled with a dragon, for every color, for every age category. That got old fast, I use Dragons rarely enough where I'm going to create them on my own rather than using someone else's dragon.

Liber Mortis didn't do that, it couldn't, it's not Ravenloft where Undead come in more powerful varities. While it's not as strong a book as Draconomicon is, it's a cut above books dedicated to a certain environment and forced cunch on races that have already been done to death. I'm currently waiting for the next non-Eberron product from WotC that really gives me that rush Draconomicon and Unearthed Arcana did. Complete Adventurer may have potential, the same can be said of Dungeon Master Guide II: The Wrath of Kahn, but I could easily see both books being a waste of time as well.

I'm still more excited about mostly 3rd party products, but I'm not instantly writing off WotC products like I used to. I'm just holding them to the same standards I hold everyone else to.

 

[Maggan]

D&D dragons in Draconomicon

I do not like the idea that dragons are polymorphing sorcerers who sire children with humanoids. I want Smaug, not that piffle.

I think that faulting Draconomicon for covering the iconic D&D dragons and not Smaug, is more a question of what taste of dragon you like, and less a question of the quality of the work in question.

It seems to me that you don't like the dragons in D&D at all, and given that, a book about them would be an extremely hard sell, regardless of the quality of the book.

I also like my dragons more Smaug-like*, so maybe someone could point towards a 3rd party product that does dragons like that?

Cheers!

Maggan

* At the same time I think Draconomicon is awesome.

 

[Staffan]

My main complaint with Draconomicon was that the last half of the book was filled with a dragon, for every color, for every age category. That got old fast, I use Dragons rarely enough where I'm going to create them on my own rather than using someone else's dragon.

Personally, I think the insta-dragons of Draconomicon were a good idea, though one that could possibly have been moved to a web enhancement. Dragons are the only creatures in the MM that you can't use "out of the box", you need to create them as NPCs. Draconomicon fixed that by providing sample dragons.