D&D 5E Racial Min/Maxes on Ability Scores?

[dave2008]

I go the opposite way, give a +1 with every feat,...

Do you give your monsters a bonus to then or just wing it?

... because it results in more relaxed character building at level 1, and more just choosing what sounds fun or fits the concept, even among those players who have optimization tendencies, like me.

I feel we get the same effect (relaxed character building for concept/theme) just by eliminating ASIs, but then none of my group has optimization tendencies

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Cool.

What about rolling - how would that work?

Maybe instead of 4d6k3, it would be 2d4+A, where A is the 10-6-8-8-10-6.
Or drop them a little and have 2d6+B where B is 8-4-6-6-8-4.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Do you give your monsters a bonus to then or just wing it?

I feel we get the same effect (relaxed character building for concept/theme) just by eliminating ASIs, but then none of my group has optimization tendencies

I just “wing it”, but I also give all monsters more skills and saves, usually give better gear, and improve their stats.

My group are talking about just using a higher point buy, and using only feats. We like having a little more freedom in terms of builds and the numbers that determine how well they work.

 

[Lanefan]

Maybe instead of 4d6k3, it would be 2d4+A, where A is the 10-6-8-8-10-6.
Or drop them a little and have 2d6+B where B is 8-4-6-6-8-4.

Yeah, OK, that works - the second one, anyway; as you could with poor luck still tart out with a 6 somewhere.

To make it real swingy and considerably more random the roll could even be a single die - say, a d8 or d9-1 to allow for a roll of '0' - added to the base 10-6-8-8-10-6 number.

 

[CubicsRube]

I'm not 100% sure what your goal is, but why not just limit ability scores to 16 max (18 with +2 racial bonus maybe) and keep the progress as RAW? This would have the bonus effect of making proficiency more important.

I was going to make the same comment but it seems that I slept too long and missed 5 pages of content!

 

[DND_Reborn]

I was going to make the same comment but it seems that I slept too long and missed 5 pages of content!

LOL it happens to all of us--away for sleep, work, vacation, or whatever--and BOOM! missed the chance. Hope you slept well.

FWIW, I'm totally committed to this idea for my next game and actually excited about the possibility of still playing 5E! I've been working on this stuff (updating house-rules) and how it will impact my game and totally on board.

 

[CubicsRube]

I'm quite a fan of simple solutions that blend into the background.

I like a 16 max with racial maximums, but remove ASIs. The only way to boost an ability score would be to take a feat that does this.

Then increasing the proficiency modifier as @dnd4vr has done.

It gives that +3 max that was the norm in clasic d&d, but it also makes ability scores feel more special, IMO. They aren't just a number to raise at higher levels, but an inherent part of your character.

I personally would probably give expertise a flat +3 modifier to make it more relevant at earlier levels, and not risk breaking bounded accuracy at higher levels.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm quite a fan of simple solutions that blend into the background.

I like a 16 max with racial maximums, but remove ASIs. The only way to boost an ability score would be to take a feat that does this.

Then increasing the proficiency modifier as @dnd4vr has done.

It gives that +3 max that was the norm in clasic d&d, but it also makes ability scores feel more special, IMO. They aren't just a number to raise at higher levels, but an inherent part of your character.

I personally would probably give expertise a flat +3 modifier to make it more relevant at earlier levels, and not risk breaking bounded accuracy at higher levels.

Did you see the feat we have Raising the Bar upthread? It works for bumping the racial maximum. I am pretty sure you did, but just in case.

I have removed the ASIs, but I did bump the ability score generation systems to include them. It gives a great starting point, IMO, maybe good enough players won't feel compelled to continually improve them.

The improved proficiency progression does pick up some of the slack, so helps IMO.

A flat +3 could certainly work. Our is currently +2 to +4 depending on level, so that would just use the average over the course of the game. Not a bad idea, really.

 

[CubicsRube]

So I like tables. Here,s the numbers the way I'd do it (not sure how you do your progression @dnd4vr ). Note that the +4 under the "new" is reserved only for those races that have an 18 max, like an elves dexterity for example.

Classic	Classic	Classic	Classic	Classic		New	New	New	New
Level	Proficiency	At +3	At +4	At +5		Level	Proficiency	At +3	At +4
1​	2​	5​	6​	7​		1​	1​	4​	5​
2​	2​	5​	6​	7​		2​	1​	4​	5​
3​	2​	5​	6​	7​		3​	2​	5​	6​
4​	2​	5​	6​	7​		4​	2​	5​	6​
5​	3​	6​	7​	8​		5​	3​	6​	7​
6​	3​	6​	7​	8​		6​	3​	6​	7​
7​	3​	6​	7​	8​		7​	4​	7​	8​
8​	3​	6​	7​	8​		8​	4​	7​	8​
9​	4​	7​	8​	9​		9​	5​	8​	9​
10​	4​	7​	8​	9​		10​	5​	8​	9​
11​	4​	7​	8​	9​		11​	6​	9​	10​
12​	4​	7​	8​	9​		12​	6​	9​	10​
13​	5​	8​	9​	10​		13​	7​	10​	11​
14​	5​	8​	9​	10​		14​	7​	10​	11​
15​	5​	8​	9​	10​		15​	8​	11​	12​
16​	5​	8​	9​	10​		16​	8​	11​	12​
17​	6​	9​	10​	11​		17​	8​	11​	12​
18​	6​	9​	10​	11​		18​	8​	11​	12​
19​	6​	9​	10​	11​		19​	8​	11​	12​
20​	6​	9​	10​	11​		20​	8​	11​	12​

EDIT: Thought I'd add another table

The below is a summary of above showing that under the new +8 modifier attribute max 16 paradigm, a Level 1 and Level 2 characters actually start of less competent (+4 instead of +5) but rapidly rise to equivalent by level 3. At level 7, the characters become equivalent to have used an asi increase to increase their attribute (which they've probably used on a feat instead). At level 11, this becomes equivalent to a +5. So the proficiency bonus effectively encapsulates the ASI increased into the fold at these levels (perhaps slightly later than if a character were taking ASIs over feats) without changing the math.

Classic	Classic	Classic	Classic	New
Level	At +3	At +4	At +5	At +3
1	5			4
2	5			4
3	5			5
4	5			5
5	6			6
6	6			6
7		7		7
8		7		7
9		8		8
10		8		8
11			9	9
12			9	9
13			10	10
14			10	10
15			10	11
16			10	11
17			11	11
18			11	11
19			11	11
20			11	11

 

[CubicsRube]

Did you see the feat we have Raising the Bar upthread? It works for bumping the racial maximum. I am pretty sure you did, but just in case.

I have removed the ASIs, but I did bump the ability score generation systems to include them. It gives a great starting point, IMO, maybe good enough players won't feel compelled to continually improve them.

The improved proficiency progression does pick up some of the slack, so helps IMO.

A flat +3 could certainly work. Our is currently +2 to +4 depending on level, so that would just use the average over the course of the game. Not a bad idea, really.

I did see it, but I also had a lot of posts to catch up on, so I admit to skimming!

The +3 would be my personal tastes. Most campaigns i've been in get to level 15 at best, so I'm more a fan of slightly front loading some of these abilities so they come into fruition earlier.