Rage and Bo9S maneuvers/stances

[brehobit]

What is the general thought on using maneuvers while raging?

I've got a _very_ effective barbarian/swordsage in my game now and so the issues has come up.

My ruling is that you can't use maneuvers that require concentration checks (per the rules on raging) and I'm not allowing recovery while raging (it just seems odd to me, and nerfing his character isn't a bad thing).

Thoughts? The temptation to disallow stances is large (again, it makes sense to me) but I think too much....

Mark

 

[ohGr]

I believe that's the way CustServ ruled, as well; no maneuvers that require banned skill checks and no recovery. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Krafen]

Stances are allowed during rage. Keep in mind a stance is a maneuver.

Disallowing maneuvers that involve Concentration checks makes sense.

Recovering maneuvers is less clear. Crusaders recover maneuvers while raging because they have no control over maneuver recover; it is automatic. I really don't think it makes sense for Swordsages to recover maneuvers while raging, but that is based on flavor. Whether Warblades can recover during a rage is unclear. I would tend to say they can. Usually, the Warblade will be recovering maneuvers as part of a melee attack. That seems reasonable while raging. The other option is a display of weapon prowess, which also seems appropriate.

 

[brehobit]

Stances are allowed during rage. Keep in mind a stance is a maneuver.

Disallowing maneuvers that involve Concentration checks makes sense.

Recovering maneuvers is less clear. Crusaders recover maneuvers while raging because they have no control over maneuver recover; it is automatic. I really don't think it makes sense for Swordsages to recover maneuvers while raging, but that is based on flavor. Whether Warblades can recover during a rage is unclear. I would tend to say they can. Usually, the Warblade will be recovering maneuvers as part of a melee attack. That seems reasonable while raging. The other option is a display of weapon prowess, which also seems appropriate.

Humm, I hadn't thought about the crusader or warblade. I'd agree, the crusader's normal recovery should be possible while raging, but any special recovery "tricks" (from class abilities or feats) that require an action to recover probably shouldn't (IMO). The warblade I'm less sure of. I'd probably not allow it...

Getting into house-rules land a I guess...

Mark

 

[brehobit]

I believe that's the way CustServ ruled, as well; no maneuvers that require banned skill checks and no recovery. Seems reasonable to me.

Any idea where that ruling is? I can't find it...

 

[Sithobi1]

Since the recovery and initiation of maneuvers don't require concentration, I don't see why any of it(except things like Insightful Strike) would be forbidden.

 

[Nightfall]

Sith,

It's more a balance issue than anything. I think.

Bre,

So far there haven't been that many rules about BoS9 that I'm aware of. Check with Paizo's Dragon BB to see for sure.

 

[Beckett]

Any idea where that ruling is? I can't find it...

Check the Ask Wizards archive over on wizards.com. I'm pretty sure it was there (along with a bunch of other Bo9S rulings).

 

[ohGr]

Here it is: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060913a

Q: Can a barbarian use maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) while raging? What about Diamond Mind maneuvers that require a Concentration check to use? What about to recover maneuvers in the middle of combat?

A: According to the text under the Concentration heading on page 39 of Tome of Battle, the text states “unlike with spells or psionic powers, you need not concentrate to initiate a maneuver or stance.” Because initiating a maneuver does not require concentration, you would be able to perform most maneuvers while in a barbarian’s Rage, or in any other condition which mimics the restrictions or raging. While raging, a character would not be able to use any Diamond Mind maneuver that requires a concentration check. Using a special action to recover an expended maneuver would fall into the category of “any abilities that require patience or concentration,” so a character would not be able to recover maneuvers in this way while raging.