Rain of Blood encounter power lvl 7/Invoker is too powerfull

[keterys]

Blackbrrd - I still disagree almost entirely with you on the balance of the invoker, since it's actually the first controller whose encounter powers made me say that it was worth having one over a striker like the sorcerer or defender like the swordmage instead...

But why don't you just not allow Covenant of Wrath in your game if that one ability bothers you so much?

 

[Holy Bovine]

Standard encounter runs in the following manner.
Invoker casts rain of blood on group of foes (if not available, all party trying to lure them in such position using different tactics), after that all enemies are damaged by rain of blood, have vulnerability and melee characters have +3 attack bonus over them. After Invnokers turn all chars in party use action point if there is one, so it is actually +10 to damage, with two attacks, but our party warlord have Bravura Presence, this leads to +15 to damage if all attacks hits. Our party has 5 characters (Paladin, Invoker, Warlord, Ranger, Warlock), so in the best case this leads to 5*15= 75 additional damage only for rain of blood, if we will take average. It will be 37, this is also much, because attack of the party is higher then defenses of monster. As well, Rain of Blood + Wrath of the Gods is ultimate combination. Also, "power bonus to attack rolls equal
to your Constitution modifier" allow to land a hit much easy. Soon it will be +4 for our invoker!

I don't have any issues in running encounters, I always can make monsters tougher or other stuff. I am concerned about this power, because it looks to powerful compare to other powers of other characters.

Sounds like I should encourage our Invoker to take this when we hit 7th. Our fights tend to be against hordes of soldiers (high defenses) and last way too long. This might make the length of combat bearable again.

 

[keterys]

Well, soldiers tend to have high Forts so that's one downside too.

But, really, it sounds like your DM is overusing soldiers. Talk to him about it, instead.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Well, soldiers tend to have high Forts so that's one downside too.

But, really, it sounds like your DM is overusing soldiers. Talk to him about it, instead.

I've tried but he seems to think unless one PC dies per fight we aren't being challenged. We recently had a fight where through excellent use of tactics and maneuvering we managed to isolate the main bad guy (a soldier with a 26AC 22 Fort 21 Reflex and 21 Will vs. 5 4th level PCs) for several rounds while we mopped up his cronies. When we finally get to grips with the main bad guy a troll and 2 more soldier type baddies show up. End result - 2 dead PCs (this after killing another PC in the past session also with a soldier heavy group). I have talked about this with him but when he completely ignores any advice I give (I DM this same group too) and just follows the written word in the adventure he is running it gets more than a little frustrating.

 

[keterys]

yeah, AC of party level + 22 is just unfun.

 

[Destil]

Wisdom vs. Fortitude

It targets fort. unless your DM is adjusting defenses or choosing opponents very careful this is a big disadvantage. Invokers actually have a pretty good number of fort targeting powers...

I played with an avenger who pretty felt all but useless in about 1/2 of our encounters because he hit fort almost exclusivity. Bad choices on his part maybe (and on the DM, too), but it's another thing to think about with the class.

 

[Stalker0]

One thing I have found is that different classes focus their strengths in different power types.


Looking at the controllers for example, wizards have some of the strongest dailies in the game, they are often game changing for a combat. Invoker dailies are not that good, but I have they have very solid encounter powers. Meanwhile the druid have the best controller at wills, but decent dailies and encounters.

 

[eamon]

Wizard lvl 3 encounter power:
Close burst 3 (target's only enemies)
Int vs. Fort; 1d8+Int fire damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage.

Sure, the invoker's power is has a neat effect, but it's also higher level, smaller area, and provoke's OA's. For that matter, if the wizard does the staff trick, he can out-AC the paladin at these levels, so he'll probably be no less rugged than the invoker. Not to mention the fact that the wizard's dailies are generally better, and, by now, he has a huge selection of pretty good at-wills.

I get the impression the wizard is overall more powerful than the invoker - although the invoker does have the superior encounter powers.

 

[keterys]

I suspect that if you polled many invokers, they'd happily take an area burst 2 over a close burst 3, so I wouldn't try to base an argument on theoretical inferiority of area type there.

That said, the only real problem with the ability is the massive bonus to hit. If that weren't there, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Meanwhile the druid have the best controller at wills, but decent dailies and encounters.

If by "controller at wills" you mean "at wills that exercise control", you might be right.

But if you mean "at wills available to a controller class", I'd have to disagree.

Hand of Radiance is awesome for avoiding the Wizard's dilemma: "How do I Scorching Burst those 3 creatures without burning my ally in the process?"