Random Casting Time for Spells

[Grayhawk]

*Note: This is certainly not for everybody, especially not those who want their magic to be fast and reliable.*

I've been thinking about what to do with spellcasting in combat, in an AoO-free system. In doing so, I've realised that the AoO's does little to hinder spellcasting, due to the 5 foot step rule, and IME counterspelling doesn't see a lot of play.

So I remembered how it was handled in earlier editions, where you rolled for initiative each round, and thus had the chance of beating the spellcaster's initiative, hitting him while casting and thus disrupting his spell - it made for some tense moments.

But I also like the cyclical initiative of 3e, with it's added simplicity of only having to roll initiative at the start of a combat.

So I've come up with a way to combine the two, while adding a random element to a spell's casting time (I prefer magic to be fickle and less of an exact science).

Here goes:

When casting a spell, the spellcaster rolls a level check (d20 + caster level) vs a DC of 15 + spell level, to see if he gets the spell off on his own initiative. If he doesn't, the spell takes effect on the following round, just before his turn comes up again.

Benefits:

1: It makes spellcasting unpredictable (obviously only a benefit to those who like that sort of thing)
2: It makes it possible to disrupt a spell, when it's casting 'drags on'.
3: It requires teammates to better protect their spellcasters.
4: It gives the spellcaster's player a dice roll of his own, for added tension.
5: It makes it possible to counterspell, for those who make their Spellcraft check and who have the right spell.
6: It makes a higher level caster more proficient at getting his lower level spells off without interruption.
7: It makes spellcasting in melee dangerous.

Draw backs:
All, or most, of the above, depending on how you look at it.

Here are the DC's and the minimum roll needed for a 9th level caster:

1st: DC 16, requires a roll of 7
2nd: DC 17, requires a roll of 8
3rd: DC 18, requires a roll of 9
4th: DC 19, requires a roll of 10
5th: DC 20, requires a roll of 11

As you can see, the 9th level caster has a 70% chance of getting his 1st level spells off without risking interruption, but only a 50% chance of getting his highest level spells off unchallenged.

At the base of this system is the assumption that a spell takes a full round to cast. If you still want your casters to both be able to cast and move in the same round, you could do it this way:

If you start your round by casting and make your check, you still get to make a move. If you devote a whole round to the casting, you get a +2 to your check. If you want to take a move first, you get a -2 to your check.

Whaddya think?

 

[Steverooo]

To do this, without changing the way that spells are gained and lost, makes first level casters (especially Wizards and Sorcerers) almost entirely useless. They would be less so, if the spells were not lost, but since they are...

Nope, DC 15 is too steep. A first level PC with, what? Two spells/day, and a 75% failure chance? Your PCs will hate you! Better prepare a sample encounter, and play-test these rules, to see how it goes. I think that you will find that your spellslingers die much more often, probably without ever getting a spell off successfully, and are less help...

 

[Sammael]

I used to have a house rule that changed the time when spells with a casting time of 1 standard action "went off." Basically, you subtracted the spell's level from your initiative, e.g. if a wizard rolled 14 for initiative and is casting a 2nd-level spell, it would go off at initiative count 12 (before anyone else). Anyone with an initiative count of 14 (but lower Dex than the wizard) or 13 can try to interrupt the casting.

The way to randomize this somewhat is to roll 1d4+spell's level, for example. Depending on what you want to do, you can either let the caster keep his original initiative (but then you have to track the effect's duration by its own initiative, which may add complexity but is pretty good for keeping track of effects), or have the caster's initiative change (as if he had delayed the action). If the caster's initiative changes, though, casters will pretty much always act last, which may be fine from a flavor standpoint but will piss players off to no end.

 

[Grayhawk]

Steverooo, Sammael, thanks for your replies.

Nope, DC 15 is too steep. A first level PC with, what? Two spells/day, and a 75% failure chance?

I think you're mistaken; this is not a Spell Failure check (like the one you suggested in the thread in General); it's a check to see if you get the spell off immediately or if the casting carries over to your next action.

Since this is for a system with no AoO's (and propably no Delayed Actions), a spell that is cast on your own initiative has no risk of being interrupted.

But that doesn't mean that the spell will be interrupted if you don't make your roll - someone still have to hit you or have the right spell to counterspell your's.

(And hitting a low level caster doesn't have to be that easy: A 1st level Wizard with Dex 14 and Mage Armor has an AC of 16. If attacked by a Hobgoblin, it'll hit him with about 1/3 of it's attacks. That means that for the Spell Casting roll to equal a Spell Failure roll, 3 Hobgoblins need to be within melee range of the caster (or using ranged weapons). In such a case that caster will be pretty much dead anyway.)

Do you still feel that the DC is too hard? (caster level + d20 vs 15 + spell level.)

What other things should be taken into consideration to make something like this work?

(For example, in an AoO less system everybody would be able to run up to a caster who's spell casting is carrying over till his next action, passing or disengaging all opponents with impunity. So such a system propably needs rules like 'You must stop your move once you enter a threatened space' and 'Disengaging from melee invites free attacks from your opponents as you move away'.)

 

[Grayhawk]

Came up with a better balanced mechanic, which makes the risk of spellcasting carrying over to your next action 50% at the most.

Level check vs a DC of 10+(2Xspell level)

While it looks less elegant than my first idea, it scales much better throughout the whole level range (and you don't have to remember the formula; you can just write the DC's out on your spell sheet as they always remain the same).

Examples:

A first level caster must make a DC 12 level check to get his 1st level spells off on his own action, making it 50% of the time.

And to compare with the examle from my first post, here are the DC's and the minimum rolls needed for a 9th level caster:

1st: DC 12, requires a roll of 3
2nd: DC 14, requires a roll of 5
3rd: DC 16, requires a roll of 7
4th: DC 18, requires a roll of 9
5th: DC 20, requires a roll of 11

Remember, this is not a spell failure check but a check to see whether you run the risk of having your spell interrupted.

Thoughts?