[random idea] Getting Rid of the Monk

[Breakstone]

In my campaigns, I like to stay within the Core Rulebooks as much as possible. That said, I'd like to get rid of the monk. It's not that the monk doesn't fit any archetypes, but I believe that those roles could be better suited for other classes.

I was thinking of turning the monk's abilities into feats that can be taken by other characters. Many, I suppose, would be Fighter Bonus feats.

How would you suggest I go about this? Have you done something similar in your campaigns?

 

[Crothian]

If you want to get rid of the monk, that's great. But I wouldn't turn all his abilties into feats. THe greater unarmed damage, flurry of blows, stunning attacks...those will be good as feats. But the increased AC, faster speed, and many of the high level abilities really don't work that well as feats.

 

[Breakstone]

If you want to get rid of the monk, that's great. But I wouldn't turn all his abilties into feats. THe greater unarmed damage, flurry of blows, stunning attacks...those will be good as feats. But the increased AC, faster speed, and many of the high level abilities really don't work that well as feats.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. As I said, I'm not against the monk... I just think it could work better through other classes.

Perhaps the AC bonus could be added onto the Dodge feat tree? Then again, that might be a little too powerful for a feat...

But as for Faster Speed, what if you remove the Barbarian Fast Speed ability and make it into a feat. Then Barbarians would get it automatically as a bonus feat at 1st level. Something like this:

Fast Movement
You are faster than average.
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet when wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

and then:

Improved Fast Movement
You are even faster than average.
Prerequisites: Fast Movement, Character level 6+, Dex 13
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +20 feet when wearing no armor, or light armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

Feet of Flurry
You are extremely faster than average.
Prerequisites: Fast Movement, Improved Fast Movement, Character level 9+, Dex 15
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +30 feet when wearing no armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

Improved Feet of Flurry
You are amazingly faster than average.
Prerequisites: Fast Movement, Improved Fast Movement, Feet of Flurry, Character level 12+, Dex 17
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +40 feet when wearing no armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

Incredible Speed
You are incredibly faster than average.
Prerequisites: Fast Movement, Improved Fast Movement, Feet of Flurry, Improved Feet of Flurry, Character level 15+, Dex 19
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +50 feet when wearing no armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

Improved Incredible Speed
You are unimaginably faster than average.
Prerequisites: Fast Movement, Improved Fast Movement, Feet of Flurry, Improved Feet of Flurry, Incredible Speed, Character level 18+, Dex 21
Benefit: Your character has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +60 feet when wearing no armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

 

[Telas]

Yeesh. I'd cut that off at the +20 mark....

I agree with the Monk not "fitting in" with everyone else, especially in a Northern European-ish setting. I'm thinking of splitting the class into "monastic" and "urban" flavors, with the former being the monk as written. The latter would have no alignment issues, but would be less of a badass/more of a fighter.

For me, the monk's Achilles heel is the alignment. It's not just alignment, but his monastery/deity. He's like a Cleric or Paladin in that he doesn't have the freedoms that other classes have, but must obey a strict code. With great power comes a great pain-in-the-butt code....

Telas

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

In my campaigns, I mutate Improved Unarmed Strike into Combat Martial Arts from d20 Modern, with the option of taking it multiple times to add more d4s to your damage. Each level of Improved requires an additional +5 BAB (or 5 levels in Monk or Psychic Warrior), so you can have 1d4 at 1st, 2d4 at 5th, 3d4 at 10th, and so on.

I don't give the other benefits of the Improved and Advanced Martial Arts from d20 Modern because I see that as simply taking Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) twice-- once for critical range and once for critical multiplier.

 

[DragonTurtle]

Well AC wise, letting the character wear light armor makes up for some of the monks AC bonus.

There is already a feat in WoTC books that make you faster by 5' , a 10' increase would be better than that.

What if instead of modifying the fighter, you modify the swashbuckler to make unarmed attacks?

 

[shurai]

One thing that bugs me about removing the monk is that doing so removes the only class that has all three good saves. Is there some non-core ability or feat that can change a character's save from the lower to the higher value?

One could add in "Improved" versions of the +2 feats (Lightning Reflexes, etc) that gives, say, an additional +4 to the save. Did they do that already?

The more I think about it, the more it seems that there isn't a good way to achieve "monkishness" with the other classes. Most of the classes gain too much magic. Barbarians are clearly a bad fit. Rogues are seemingly a good choice because they get lots of skills with a smallish hit die, although it's hard to justify granting Sneak Attack to a group of people who demand strict integrity. On the other hand, fighters seem like a bad fit too because they aren't skilled enough.

To fix the lowered-skills problem I guess you could have people multiclass fighter/rogue and take the monkish feats that have been proposed. That would also do a little to fix the saves problem too. Here's how I guess it'd work out:

* alternating d10/d6 hit die = monk d8
* +1 / +3/4 BAB = slightly better BAB than core monk
* decent fort / decent ref / poor will + will save feats = slightly worse than monk
* +2 / +8 skill points/level = slightly better than monk
* 1 bonus fighter feat / 4 levels or so = monkish special abilities

As far as the monk AC goes, I'd say that as long as they get a decent AC it doesn't really matter if it's by wearing armor or not; monks are intended to have worse armor classes than fighters anyway, I believe.

-S

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I'm importing D20 Modern martial arts (and the martial artist advanced class) into my games. Failing that, I'd let PCs take the first 1 to 3 levels of monk and then continue in fighter or whatever, possibly with damage-boosting feats. Some of the Modern stuff has to be toned down, though. For example, they've got a feat that removes your opponent's Str bonus to attack against you.

 

[Navar]

You should just pick up Aracana Evolved by monte cook there is a class in there (oathbound) that will solve all of your problems.