Randomized Mini's or Not?

[MerricB]

OK, fair enough. It's probably still only a difference of a small amount per item, though, given the mass produced nature of the minis. Although admittedly I'm just guessing here.

Guessing badly, I'd say.

Here's a DDM rare:

Here's a DDM common:

The beholder (the rare) is a multi-part miniature (at least three parts) that need to be glued together. It also has many, many paint steps, plus requires a lot of plastic. Certainly compared to the common, one-piece timber wolf mini.

Remember, we're not talking about much money here to play with. An individual mini costs about $1.63 from the pack. Of that, Wizards probably only gets $0.40. A very small increase in the price of a mini has a significant impact at the end - perhaps four to eight times the actual size of the increase in cost to make.

IIRC, one of ENworld's members recently investigated making plastic minis themselves as a business venture. The startup cost is horrific. It's only feasible if you make the minis in bulk.

Another aspect to consider is from the retailer's end. Retailers detest lots of little individual minis. They take up a lot of space, and what do you do with the ones that don't sell? A single SKU is much easier from their point of view. Big FLGS may be able to carry the entire range of non-random minis, but I know that my own FLGS doesn't even bother with those mini lines - only with random minis.

Think how much time and money could be saved by NOT producing the dire toad and fungus man minis that were a dime a dozen and packing them in random boosters.

I can. So, you only want orc miniatures, then? And no-one in the world wants giant frogs or myconids?

One of the glorious things about DDM is that the random system allows them to make these strange figures. (Giant Frogs are part of D&D history, anyway. See T1: The Village of Hommlet). There are hundreds of monsters for D&D. Do you only want the safe options? Orcs, goblins and giants?

Not for me, thanks. I'm very happy to have Chraals and Zombie Dragons to threaten my PCs with. (And, yes, I've used both in the RPG).

So I think WotC _is_ hurting itself by not making a better distribution ratio. Why do they need to release 24 rares and only 12 commons? That just feeds the frustration. It should be the other way around to make things come out reasonably to encourage pack-buying.

There are only 12 commons because very few figures work as commons.

I tend to buy about 2 cases worth (or a little more) of each set, and then get the rest by trading. This gives me about 8-9 of each common, which is generally a very good number for the RPG.

As well, I know of a lot of people are in the situation where trading isn't possible because no one else near them is collecting (because they're frightened off by the pricey-ness and poor distribution ratio, and/or living nowhere near secondary sellers).

Those people wouldn't be able to buy non-random figures either, because no-one nearby would be selling them.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Counting the number of miniatures I own would be a lengthy process - I have thousands of the critters.

Counting the WotC boosters and starters that I have bought is a much quicker task - none.

How much does this hurt WotC? At a guess, not at all. I am not their market.

Pretty much. Just like I wasn't the market for GW, Reaper or Ral Partha miniatures. I have perhaps 100 metal miniatures, mainly bought, assembled and painted by my brother.

I have over 2000 DDM. I can store them easily, I have a huge selection to work with, and I don't have to paint them.

Although it would be nice to know exactly what I was getting - well, actually, if you buy by the case, you've got a very good idea - I'd not trade away the cheapness and large range of the figures for a non-random line.

Cheers!

 

[Bront]

(Note to self: Must. Not. Rant. Like. Babbling. Loon.)

I absolutely loathe the collectible nature of D&D minis. But I don't think that it hurts WotC one bit. It costs them exactly the same to make a Rare mini as it does a Common, afaik. They are clearly making money from the huge numbers of boosters that they sell. The profit that they make from the fact that buyers of the minis generally buy loads of them in order to get those coveted figures most likely outstrips the profit that they would make if they sold the rare minis individually. So of course it makes better business sense to sell them randomised. After all, it's not like they could get away with selling a beholder for $50 themselves, is it?

As a non-collecting gamer who just wants some decent, specific minis to use in my rpg games, they are no good for me. I get my minis elsewhere. So yeah, WotC are losing my dollar here, but that is insignificant compared to the masses of dollars they are getting from those who do buy them en masse collectors (and out of the 6 gamers in my group, 2 are rabid, addicted nutters who by them by the caseload).

I couldn't have said this better myself.

What realy irks me is that the only Warforged minis around are collectables, and there aren't even many of those.

 

[Felon]

As for cheap, non-randomized minis...eBay has a sizable second-hand market for minis, and commons can frequently be had for dirt cheap. The secondary market is possible because of the way WotC sells their minis.

Exactly. Most of these complaints are pretty baseless.

SO, you want packs of orcs? Wanna buy kobolds by the bushel? Visions of hill giant barbarians dancing in your head? No biggie. Hit eBay.

I never buy the minis in boxes. I just go to eBay and buy an entire set for about $200. That usually includes one of each rare, two of each uncommon, and four of each common.

 

[MerricB]

What realy irks me is that the only Warforged minis around are collectables, and there aren't even many of those.

Here's the terrible thing: I have heard a great number of complaints about the inclusion of Warforged minis in the DDM line. Under a non-random scheme, they'd be a mini that might not make it at all, or otherwise be very, very expensive because not many people would buy them.

You can get a Warforged mini from a secondary seller quite cheaply, actually.

Cheers!

 

[Glyfair]

Here's the terrible thing: I have heard a great number of complaints about the inclusion of Warforged minis in the DDM line. Under a non-random scheme, they'd be a mini that might not make it at all, or otherwise be very, very expensive because not many people would buy them.

They might make them if they thought they had the resources to set up a single miniatures business. However, I doubt you'd see more than one or maybe two variations.

 

[Bagpuss]

While they are randomised to me they aren't "Collectable" collectable to me means I have to own at least one of each, from every set. For RPG purposes I don't, I buy them and use what I get. I check e-bay and buy multiples of commons/uncommons, I never buy rares. So they work out cheaper than buying individual miniatures. The random nature means I sometimes end up using creatures I wouldn't have thought about otherwise, and if I need something I haven't got I just proxy.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The number of variations you'd see in something like Warforged would depend upon 1) the popularity of the Eberron setting, 2) if Warforged wound up in other settings, 3) the usefulness of Warforged in a pure- miniatures combat game 4) if something like Warforged showed up in another RPG and 5) the general kewl-ness of the Warforged minis.

I mean, looking over my collection (assembled over 28 years of play), my fantasy minis include some real oddballs, and I tend to buy oddball minis to promote the idea of producing more in the companies that make them. I have several different Beholders, boxes of what would be called "Anthropomorphic Animals" in D&D, Manticores, slimes...Ettins...Buffalo...Pegacorns.

And that's just in the NON-CMG lines.

Did I have to look for them? You bet- especially when I lived in Manhattan, Kansas as a kid in the late '70's- early '80's. The local bookstore had some D&D stuff because the college kids played it too, but not much beyond the Ral Partha or Heritage takes on PHB races, Goblins, Orcs, Rats and Spiders. Grenadier, while not quite as good looking as the Ral Partha minis, typically had cool boxed sets- 10-20 minis per box, grouped around a theme- Wizards, Warriors, Adventurers. (Unlike the DDM boxes, though, each box detailed each mini within.)

But every month or so, my parents and I would go to Wichita, Topeka, or Kansas City for fun, food and shopping- I used to go to game stores in all three, and Lawrence besides- 1 hour minimum drive time to get to Topeka or Lawrence, 2 for the others. Anything that I couldn't find in Manhattan wound up in my hand-basket or arms, and I'd sort out what I could afford...usually based on percieved rarity or coolness.

 

[blargney the second]

I think jodyjohnson has the right of it: Wizards is doing fine with the minis line. The proof is that they're still making them. I doubt Hasbro would let them continue with a severely lossy product line for this long.

Randomized minis are a tool - you just have to make sure you're using them for the purpose that they're made for. Inspiration from random sources is a great way to improve your game. I've made up a large plant monster encounter so I can use the Warbound Impaler I recently picked up.
-sav

 

[JediSoth]

I buy tons of the collectable minis, but I'd prefer to see them non-randomized, even if I had to pay more for them. I always seem to get tons of the commons (*COUGH*abyssal maw*COUGH*) I don't need and very few, if any, of the rares that I use often (ogres, etc.). It's gotten better with newer sets, but I've still noticed a trend to make the most RPG-friendly minis rare and the wierd, odd minis I never use in my campaign common.

To be fair, I can't complain about the number of orcs, goblins, kobolds, dwarves, and skeletons I've gotten. But then again, my games don't stay in the low levels forever.

JediSoth