D&D 5E Ranged attacks from behind a corner/an object

[lkwpeter]

Hey there,

I know there have been some discussions about that topic, but I couldn't find a clear answer.

The rules intend that ranged attacks while hidden seem to be possible. Otherwise there wouldn't be feats like Skulker concerning this. Furthermore you wouldn't get Advantage while being hidden. Of course, you could argument that the "hidding" condition in this situations are only possible whily "lightly obscured" (e.g. by dim light), because Skulker also makes that possible.

However, here are my straight questions:

1.) Is it possible to hide behind an object/corner and make a ranged attack while being hidden?
2.) Do I have to step out for that or can I shoot while staying behind that object (e.g. by sticking to a wall/object and just peep around the edge of it).

Notice: If the answer concerning the 2nd question is "step out", attacks while hidden would no longer be possible with a Ready Action, because this would require movement.

Would be glad about answers!

Thanks in advance!
Peter

 

[Nailen]

I've not read previous threads on this so may be grasping the wrong end of the stick, but I don't think it's about being 'obscured', it's about levels of 'cover'.

I would play it this way at my table:
1) Yes, but you can't have total cover. You can have 3/4 cover or half cover, depending on what you're hiding behind.
2) Based on what you're hiding behind, you may have to move to shoot. If it's an arrow slit in a wall or a gap between two barrels then you don't need to move. If it's a corner or a single barrel, then you will.

Where do you get the idea that stepping out to fire isn't possible with the Ready action? IMO, you are taking a single step or even just shifting your weight from one leg to the other. I wouldn't disallow that level of movement under Ready.

 

[Bardbarian]

When targeting you draw a line from one point on your character to the target, as long as this line is unbroken you can attack the target. If part of the target cannot be drawn to then this results in cover.

So, if ANY line can be drawn from part of the attacker they have line of sight. This allows you to stay in enough cover to maintain stealth. Think of an archer shooting out of a window. because the voer is next to them it does not hinder their aim. On the other hand the enemy would have a more difficult time vieing them and discerning thier location until they have a reason to look in the direction an arrow just hit them from. the use of opposed stealth and perception accounts for the chance of noticing a guy peeeking out from a window before they shoot. If they were not visible at all (total cover) there would not even be a perception check.

Hope this helps.

 

[Shiroiken]

Like many aspects of Stealth, this has been deliberately left to the DM's discretion. My group allows for attack from cover while hidden. You do not need to move out of cover to so, so long as you have a line of effect from somewhere in your space (including a corner) to the target. In the case of short cover (such as crouching behind barrels), you can shoot over them instead.

 

[TallIan]

1)Yes, but if you can see and shoot at him, he can see and shoot back. You'll have cover, but may also be hidden. As far as hiding goes that's got a lot to do with the DM ruling. For example I don't allow a rogue to shoot then hide unless he has done something to change the situation. eg if he's hiding behind the alter, shoots and then tries to hide again - auto fail as the bad guy knows the rogue's behind the alter. On the other hand he could hide each turn behind a pillar and move between the pillars each round to remain hidden as long as there was some means for him to move between pillars without being seen.

2)Keep in mind that you occupy a 5 foot square, I've known some big people in my life, but no one has ever physically taken up THAT much space. So in order to step out of cover I'd argue that you don't have to move in a way that game mechanics come into play. If you are shooting around the corner, and for some reason can't move, shoot, move to remain completely concealed I would grant you 3/4 cover to represent that moment when you have stepped out to shoot.

 

[Oofta]

Stealth and hiding are frequently debated here, so don't be surprised if this ends up on that tangent. Ultimately there's a lot of DM discretion when it comes to hiding. Concerning Skulker feat specifically, there are ways to hide while only lightly obscured such as Wood Elf (there are probably others).

Some DMs (myself included) also allow hiding without being totally obscured (unseen) or behind total cover. In my games, you can hide in an area the enemy doesn't think there will be an imminent threat and step out to attack while remaining hidden. So if that orc has a raging barbarian trying to hack their head off, they may not be paying much attention to the tree behind them until after someone steps out from behind the tree and shoots them. At that point, the orc knows where the arrow came from and now knows to be watching that flank but if the rogue can get to a different spot they can repeat the attempt (possibly with disadvantage). Other DMs may let your PC hide behind a lone tree on an otherwise empty plane, lean out and fire while remaining hidden.

As long as the DM is clear and consistent about how they rule stealth, it's allowed by the rules which are purposefully vague on how to run it. There was an interview a while back where they talked about it, that at one point they had detailed rules worked out and decided to simply leave it in the hands of the DM as part of the general direction of 5E.

Also consider other races. Drow for example have far greater darkvision range (120 ft) than most PCs so will be able to target enemies from the shadows quite easily.

 

[Hriston]

1) Yes!

2) You don't have to step out. You can attack from your hiding place. (edit: as long as your target doesn't have total cover from you)

 

[Nailen]

2) You don't have to step out. You can attack from your hiding place.

Surely this depends on the nature of your hiding place. And how much cover it is giving you.
Total cover - you are completely hidden, and it works both ways so your target is completely hidden to you too. Definitely have to move to attack in this case
3/4 Cover - you are mostly hidden (behind an arrow slit, behind the small gap between two barrels etc) you can see your target, and they can *possibly* detect you, hence your +5 to AC if they try to hit you back. No need to 'move'
1/2 cover - you are half hidden behind a less substantial object

 

[lkwpeter]

Thanks for your responses! I figured out that there were two positions so far:

1.) While hiding behind a corner/object you have full cover and therefore need to step out to shoot.
2.) You can shoot "around" a corner/object without the need to jump out and back again. But if you do so, you only have 3/4 cover until the start of your next turn (if you don't move at all).
3.) While hiding behind an obstacle you have total cover, but your target does not and can be targeted without you having to step out from behind the obstacle.

It seems like there is no "right" or "wrong". It's up to the DM and I am fine with it.

But I'd like to add another szenario as a question to those, who agreed to the second position:

Let's say, I am playing a rogue that hides behind a corner. He gets Sneak Attack, because of the fact that he has the hidden condition that grants him Advantage (Advantage is one of the requirements for a Sneak Attack). The Rogue is a master of hiding, so he attacks and then uses his Bonus Action to hide again with his Cunning Action. He repeats that for several rounds.

So, I know there are a lot of people that say "NO! You can't hide twice behind the same place!". But I assume three things:

• a) If there is a place to hide only the dice decides whether or not a creature detects the rogue (no matter how often).
• b) The creature might know from where the attack/arrow/bolt came from, but it does not see the attacker. It doesn't see the Rogue reloading or aiming and in case of an object (e.g. a big barrel) it doesn't even know, if the Rogue is going to pop out from the left or right side. So it's obviously harder to defend against the rogue's further attacks than it would normally be.
• c) The rogue (and only the rogue) can "shoot and hide" within one round. He is a master of hiding like other classes can cast or do other cool stuff. That said, there should be some "general openness" for rogue tactics, as it is one of his main features.

What do you think about that?

Kind regards
Peter

 

[jaelis]

The cover rules are pretty clear, but the hiding rules require some DM adjudication.

If you have total cover from a creature, then you can certainly hide from it but you certainly can't attack it.

If you have partial cover then you can certainly attack, but you'll have to convince your DM to let you hide.

In the particular situation of hiding behind a corner, I would say that you can hide fine as long as you remain behind the corner. If you "lean out" to attack, then I would allow you to benefit from hiding only if the target doesn't have reason to believe you are behind that corner. If you simply step behind the corner, use cunning action to hide, and then pop back out to shoot, I wouldn't give you advantage. If you step behind one corner, hide, and then stealthily move to a different corner, I would let you have advantage.

---
I crossed your last post, but just to be clear: there's no question that the rogue can step behind the corner and hide. The question is whether he can then reveal himself enough to shoot without giving up his hiding spot. We don't have rules for that so it's really a DM call for when and how it works.