Ranger & Barbarian improvement
- Thread starter Ferox4
- Start date
The great disadvantage of barbarians, rangers and paladins in 3e is that compared to fighters they are not particularly powerful combatants at mid- to high-levels. The primary reason is their comparative lack of combat feats. While these other classes have their own particular strengths, they make poor primary warrior-types, and if you want the particular strengths that these classes bring to the game, you're often better off multiclassing, for example, as a fighter/rogue instead of a ranger, as a fighter/cleric instead of a paladin, and as a... well, as a fighter instead of a barbarian. The simple "fix" is just to give the other fighter "subclasses" (per 1e AD&D) extra feats, as Monte Cook has done in his version of the ranger (plus given it a few more benefits which, IMHO, make it too powerful...). There are other more interestign ways to vary the classes to fit into a particular campaign, and I myself toyed with the idea of getting rid of the barbarian completely and replacing it with a series of feats permitting barbarian (or "berserk") rage. However, seeing as no player in my campaign is playing a barbarian, I decided it was too much like hard work!
Of course, the bard, druid and sorcerer are all pretty weak classes compared to the three "real powers" - cleric, fighter and wizard - but that's a whole other topic.
Cheers, AK
Of course, the bard, druid and sorcerer are all pretty weak classes compared to the three "real powers" - cleric, fighter and wizard - but that's a whole other topic.
Cheers, AK
Drawmack
First Post
I personally leave the core classes alone (except for limiting the magic system for a moderate magic setting).
I don't personally find any of the classes weaker or stronger then any of the other classes they are just good at different things. For example stick a rogue in hand to hand with a BBEG and see what happens. On the other hand stick a fighter or a wizard in a dungeon loaded with traps and puzzles and see what happens. Stick a druid on a dungeon crawl that lasts months, where they can't use most of their spells and see what happens. Stick that same druid in a forest. The classes are specialized not unbalanced. For example I have warned against taking the druid because I'm running a city campaign and would find great difficulty in making adventure that show case that particular class and I have used Urban Lore and Shadow (from Traps and Treachery) to replace Track and Wilderness Lore for the ranger. However if I were playing a winderness campaign I would recommend against the rogue class or at least recommend that the character multiclass, rogue/monk is a great mix. What does this mean? It means that if I do modify the core classes it is because of something campaign centric and I generally modify them by saying - I recommend you don't take that or that you go here with it. So I didn't vote in the poll because your answers pigeon hole me just a bit to much for my liking.
Well- I've done a bit of work on the advancement of Barbarians and rangers to even their fighting abilities a bit. The still lag slightly behind fighters but make up for it with their other class abilities. Below is the chart I've proposed for advancement (but not yet game tested)
BARBARIAN & RANGER POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL RANGER BARBARIAN
1 Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Track Rage 1/day, Fast Movement
Favored Enemy
2 Uncanny Dodge (flat)
3 Bonus Feat * Bonus Feat**
4 Spell use Rage 2/ day
5 Second Favored Enemy Uncanny Dodge (flank)
6 Bonus Feat* Bonus Feat**
7
8 Rage 3/day, Controlled***
9 Bonus Feat* /Improved two weapon# Bonus Feat**
10 Third Favored Enemy Uncanny Dodge (trap)
11 Damage Reduction (1)
12 Bonus Feat* Bonus Feat**,Rage 4/day, no fatigue****
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
* - Ranger Bonus Feats:
The ranger may pick from the following list of feats as a bonus. Any feat that requires Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting only applies if wearing light armor or none.
Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-by-attack, Wild Rider, Main Gauche, twin weapon fighting, Fast Draw, Weapon Juggle, Trample, (others can be added as seen appropriate by the DM committee)
** - Barbarian Bonus Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Monkey Grip, Great Fortitude, Combat Fury, Extra Rage, Fast Mover, Fiery Rage, Improved Critical (others as appropriate)
*** - Controlled Rage: A barbarian of 8th level or higher no longer suffers an AC penalty
when raging.
**** - No Fatigue: the barbarian no longer is winded after raging (this ability comes at
20th level in the original PH)
# - Improved Two Weapon Fighting- Note-this is not a bonus feat, but the ranger has he
OPTION to take it (see PH)
OK- I just copied this from a word document and it didn't lay out all that well. But it's a start. I'm interested if people think this swings the pendulum too far in the other direction. Essentially the ranger and barabarian get a bonus feat every three levels as opposed to the fighters two.
BARBARIAN & RANGER POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL RANGER BARBARIAN
1 Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Track Rage 1/day, Fast Movement
Favored Enemy
2 Uncanny Dodge (flat)
3 Bonus Feat * Bonus Feat**
4 Spell use Rage 2/ day
5 Second Favored Enemy Uncanny Dodge (flank)
6 Bonus Feat* Bonus Feat**
7
8 Rage 3/day, Controlled***
9 Bonus Feat* /Improved two weapon# Bonus Feat**
10 Third Favored Enemy Uncanny Dodge (trap)
11 Damage Reduction (1)
12 Bonus Feat* Bonus Feat**,Rage 4/day, no fatigue****
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
* - Ranger Bonus Feats:
The ranger may pick from the following list of feats as a bonus. Any feat that requires Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting only applies if wearing light armor or none.
Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-by-attack, Wild Rider, Main Gauche, twin weapon fighting, Fast Draw, Weapon Juggle, Trample, (others can be added as seen appropriate by the DM committee)
** - Barbarian Bonus Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Monkey Grip, Great Fortitude, Combat Fury, Extra Rage, Fast Mover, Fiery Rage, Improved Critical (others as appropriate)
*** - Controlled Rage: A barbarian of 8th level or higher no longer suffers an AC penalty
when raging.
**** - No Fatigue: the barbarian no longer is winded after raging (this ability comes at
20th level in the original PH)
# - Improved Two Weapon Fighting- Note-this is not a bonus feat, but the ranger has he
OPTION to take it (see PH)
OK- I just copied this from a word document and it didn't lay out all that well. But it's a start. I'm interested if people think this swings the pendulum too far in the other direction. Essentially the ranger and barabarian get a bonus feat every three levels as opposed to the fighters two.
This time I broke them into separate pieces-
Here is the ranger
RANGER POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL RANGER
1 Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Track
Favored Enemy
2
3 Bonus Feat *
4 Spell use
5 Second Favored Enemy
6 Bonus Feat*
7
8
9 Bonus Feat* /Improved two weapon#
10 Third Favored Enemy
11
12 Bonus Feat*
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
* - Ranger Bonus Feats:
The ranger may pick from the following list of feats as a bonus. Any feat that requires Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting only applies if wearing light armor or none.
Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-by-attack, Wild Rider, Main Gauche, twin weapon fighting, Fast Draw, Weapon Juggle, Trample, (others can be added as seen appropriate by the DM committee)
# - Improved Two Weapon Fighting- Note-this is not a bonus feat, but the ranger has he
OPTION to take it (see PH)
Here is the barbarian
BARBARIAN POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL BARBARIAN
1 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement
2 Uncanny Dodge (flat)
3 Bonus Feat**
4 Rage 2/ day
5 Uncanny Dodge (flank)
6 Bonus Feat**
7
8 Rage 3/day, Controlled***
9 Bonus Feat**
10 Uncanny Dodge (trap)
11 Damage Reduction (1)
12 Bonus Feat**,Rage 4/day, no fatigue****
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
** - Barbarian Bonus Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Monkey Grip, Great Fortitude, Combat Fury, Extra Rage, Fast Mover, Fiery Rage, Improved Critical (others as appropriate)
*** - Controlled Rage: A barbarian of 8th level or higher no longer suffers an AC penalty
when raging.
**** - No Fatigue: the barbarian no longer is winded after raging (this ability comes at
20th level in the original PH)
Dergon
Here is the ranger
RANGER POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL RANGER
1 Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Track
Favored Enemy
2
3 Bonus Feat *
4 Spell use
5 Second Favored Enemy
6 Bonus Feat*
7
8
9 Bonus Feat* /Improved two weapon#
10 Third Favored Enemy
11
12 Bonus Feat*
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
* - Ranger Bonus Feats:
The ranger may pick from the following list of feats as a bonus. Any feat that requires Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting only applies if wearing light armor or none.
Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-by-attack, Wild Rider, Main Gauche, twin weapon fighting, Fast Draw, Weapon Juggle, Trample, (others can be added as seen appropriate by the DM committee)
# - Improved Two Weapon Fighting- Note-this is not a bonus feat, but the ranger has he
OPTION to take it (see PH)
Here is the barbarian
BARBARIAN POWER UPGRADES
LEVEL BARBARIAN
1 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement
2 Uncanny Dodge (flat)
3 Bonus Feat**
4 Rage 2/ day
5 Uncanny Dodge (flank)
6 Bonus Feat**
7
8 Rage 3/day, Controlled***
9 Bonus Feat**
10 Uncanny Dodge (trap)
11 Damage Reduction (1)
12 Bonus Feat**,Rage 4/day, no fatigue****
13 etc
as PH + bonus feat every three levels
** - Barbarian Bonus Feats:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Monkey Grip, Great Fortitude, Combat Fury, Extra Rage, Fast Mover, Fiery Rage, Improved Critical (others as appropriate)
*** - Controlled Rage: A barbarian of 8th level or higher no longer suffers an AC penalty
when raging.
**** - No Fatigue: the barbarian no longer is winded after raging (this ability comes at
20th level in the original PH)
Dergon
i was in a hurry and didn't care too much because i know my players, and they can't powergame, because they dont know the rules in the first place.
so, i gave ranger a bonus feat ala fighter at 1,4,7,10,3,16,19
woodland stride at 4th
trackless step at 8th.
took away all the two weapon fighting stuff
and left everything else the same.
i doubt its balanced, but i dont care too much ^_^
imo, barbarians are fine. they are not as good of fighters as fighters, but, a fighter will most likely starve to death if he gets lost in the woods.
melon-neko
so, i gave ranger a bonus feat ala fighter at 1,4,7,10,3,16,19
woodland stride at 4th
trackless step at 8th.
took away all the two weapon fighting stuff
and left everything else the same.
i doubt its balanced, but i dont care too much ^_^
imo, barbarians are fine. they are not as good of fighters as fighters, but, a fighter will most likely starve to death if he gets lost in the woods.
melon-neko
Airwolf
First Post
Since you asked, here is my take on an alt.Ranger. Since I have not, nor has anyone in my group, played a Barbarian I haven't thought much about the class.
The additions are increased spell ability and some bonus feats.
The spell ability starts at 1st level and continues to grant 6th level spells. I have not come up with a spell list for 5th and 6th level but they would be similar to druid spells at that level, with a smaller list to choose from.
The bonus feats occur at 4th level and every 4 levels after.
IMO this gives the ranger the flexibility to back up the fighter types and the spell slingers.
If I were to do anything else would be to add some type of Ranger Knowledge ability (ala Bardic Knowledge). This would apply to more nature stuff, where water can be found, what type of animals and plants live in this environment, etc.
BAB: Same as PHB
SAVES: Same as PHB
SKILL POINTS: Same as PHB
RANGER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills: The ranger's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields.
TABLE: The Ranger
Level Special
----- -------
1 Track, 1st favored enemy
2
3
4 Bonus Feat
5 2nd favored enemy
6
7
8 Bonus Feat
9
10 3rd favored enemy
11
12 Bonus Feat
13
14
15 4th favored enemy
16 Bonus Feat
17
18
19
20 5th favored enemy, Bonus Feat
TABLE: Ranger Spells Per Day
------------Spells per Day-----------
L 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
- - - - - - - -
1 2 — — — — — —
2 3 0 — — — — —
3 3 1 — — — —
4 3 2 0 — — — —
5 3 3 1 — — — —
6 3 3 2 — — — —
7 3 3 2 0 — — —
8 3 3 3 1 — — —
9 3 3 3 2 — — —
10 3 3 3 2 0 — —
11 3 3 3 3 1 — —
12 3 3 3 3 2 — —
13 3 3 3 3 2 0 —
14 4 3 3 3 3 1 —
15 4 4 3 3 3 2 —
16 4 4 4 3 3 2 0
17 4 4 4 4 3 3 1
18 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
When wearing light armor or no armor, a ranger can fight with two weapons as if he or she had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. The ranger loses this special bonus when fighting in medium or heavy armor, or when using a double-headed weapon (such as a double sword).
Spells: Beginning at 1st level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells. To cast a spell, the ranger must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell's level. Ranger bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a Difficulty Class of 10 + spell level + Wisdom modifier. When the ranger gets 0 spells of a given level, such as 0 1st-level spells at 2nd level, the ranger gets only bonus spells. A ranger without a bonus spell for that level cannot yet cast a spell of that level. A ranger has access to any spell on the ranger spell list and can freely choose which to prepare. A ranger prepares and casts spells just as a cleric does (though the ranger cannot use spontaneous casting to lose a spell and cast a cure or inflict spell in its place).
Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.
Favored Enemy: At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature as a favored enemy. (A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.) Due to his extensive study of his foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Wilderness Lore checks when using these skills against this type of creature. Likewise, he gets the same bonus to weapon damage rolls against creatures of this type. A ranger also gets the damage bonus with ranged weapons, but only against targets within 30 feet (the ranger cannot strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus doesn't apply to damage against creatures that are immune to critical hits.
At 5th level and at every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select a new favored enemy, and the bonus associated with every previously selected favored enemy goes up by +1.
Table: Ranger Favored Enemies
Type
· Aberrations
· Animals
· Beasts
· Constructs
· Dragons
· Elementals
· Fey
· Giants
· Humanoid type
· Magical beasts
· Oozes
· Outsider type
· Plants
· Shapechangers
· Undead
· Vermin
* Rangers may not select "humanoid" or "outsider" as a favored enemy, but they may select a more narrowly defined type of humanoid or outsider. A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: A ranger with a base attack bonus of at least +9 can choose to gain the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat even if he does not have the other prerequisites for the feat. The ranger must be wearing light armor or no armor in order to use this benefit.
Bonus Feat: A ranger may select a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels there after. There is no restriction on the feat that may be taken, unlike the bonus feats for fighters.
The additions are increased spell ability and some bonus feats.
The spell ability starts at 1st level and continues to grant 6th level spells. I have not come up with a spell list for 5th and 6th level but they would be similar to druid spells at that level, with a smaller list to choose from.
The bonus feats occur at 4th level and every 4 levels after.
IMO this gives the ranger the flexibility to back up the fighter types and the spell slingers.
If I were to do anything else would be to add some type of Ranger Knowledge ability (ala Bardic Knowledge). This would apply to more nature stuff, where water can be found, what type of animals and plants live in this environment, etc.
BAB: Same as PHB
SAVES: Same as PHB
SKILL POINTS: Same as PHB
RANGER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills: The ranger's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields.
TABLE: The Ranger
Level Special
----- -------
1 Track, 1st favored enemy
2
3
4 Bonus Feat
5 2nd favored enemy
6
7
8 Bonus Feat
9
10 3rd favored enemy
11
12 Bonus Feat
13
14
15 4th favored enemy
16 Bonus Feat
17
18
19
20 5th favored enemy, Bonus Feat
TABLE: Ranger Spells Per Day
------------Spells per Day-----------
L 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
- - - - - - - -
1 2 — — — — — —
2 3 0 — — — — —
3 3 1 — — — —
4 3 2 0 — — — —
5 3 3 1 — — — —
6 3 3 2 — — — —
7 3 3 2 0 — — —
8 3 3 3 1 — — —
9 3 3 3 2 — — —
10 3 3 3 2 0 — —
11 3 3 3 3 1 — —
12 3 3 3 3 2 — —
13 3 3 3 3 2 0 —
14 4 3 3 3 3 1 —
15 4 4 3 3 3 2 —
16 4 4 4 3 3 2 0
17 4 4 4 4 3 3 1
18 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
When wearing light armor or no armor, a ranger can fight with two weapons as if he or she had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. The ranger loses this special bonus when fighting in medium or heavy armor, or when using a double-headed weapon (such as a double sword).
Spells: Beginning at 1st level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells. To cast a spell, the ranger must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell's level. Ranger bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a Difficulty Class of 10 + spell level + Wisdom modifier. When the ranger gets 0 spells of a given level, such as 0 1st-level spells at 2nd level, the ranger gets only bonus spells. A ranger without a bonus spell for that level cannot yet cast a spell of that level. A ranger has access to any spell on the ranger spell list and can freely choose which to prepare. A ranger prepares and casts spells just as a cleric does (though the ranger cannot use spontaneous casting to lose a spell and cast a cure or inflict spell in its place).
Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.
Favored Enemy: At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature as a favored enemy. (A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.) Due to his extensive study of his foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Wilderness Lore checks when using these skills against this type of creature. Likewise, he gets the same bonus to weapon damage rolls against creatures of this type. A ranger also gets the damage bonus with ranged weapons, but only against targets within 30 feet (the ranger cannot strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus doesn't apply to damage against creatures that are immune to critical hits.
At 5th level and at every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select a new favored enemy, and the bonus associated with every previously selected favored enemy goes up by +1.
Table: Ranger Favored Enemies
Type
· Aberrations
· Animals
· Beasts
· Constructs
· Dragons
· Elementals
· Fey
· Giants
· Humanoid type
· Magical beasts
· Oozes
· Outsider type
· Plants
· Shapechangers
· Undead
· Vermin
* Rangers may not select "humanoid" or "outsider" as a favored enemy, but they may select a more narrowly defined type of humanoid or outsider. A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: A ranger with a base attack bonus of at least +9 can choose to gain the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat even if he does not have the other prerequisites for the feat. The ranger must be wearing light armor or no armor in order to use this benefit.
Bonus Feat: A ranger may select a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels there after. There is no restriction on the feat that may be taken, unlike the bonus feats for fighters.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
