Ranger combat style feats as prerequisites

[irdeggman]

Hyp,

I respectfully disagree.

By losing all benefits of the feat IM it is referring to the things that are specifically listed as benefits:

FEAT NAME [TYPE OF FEAT]
Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or a class level that a character must have in order to acquire this feat. This entry is absent if a feat has no prerequisite. A feat may have more than one prerequisite.

Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.

In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.

Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.

Special: Additional facts about the feat that may be helpful when you decide whether to acquire the feat.

And since combat style is actually a class feature:

Class Features: A multiclass character gets all the class features of all his or her classes but must also suffer the consequences of the special restrictions of all his or her classes. (Exception: A character who acquires the barbarian class does not become illiterate.)

In the special case of turning undead, both clerics and experienced paladins have the same ability. If the character’s paladin level is 4th or higher, her effective turning level is her cleric level plus her paladin level minus 3.

In the special case of uncanny dodge, both experienced barbarians and experienced rogues have the same ability. When a barbarian/rogue would gain uncanny dodge a second time (for her second class), she instead gains improved uncanny dodge, if she does not already have it. Her barbarian and rogue levels stack to determine the rogue level an attacker needs to flank her.

In the special case of obtaining a familiar, both wizards and sorcerers have the same ability. A sorcerer/wizard stacks his sorcerer and wizard levels to determine the familiar’s natural armor, Intelligence score, and special abilities.

So you lose the things listed as "benefits" in the feat entry. The text for combat style does not state you no longer are treated as having the feat only that you lose all benfits of that feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hyp,

I respectfully disagree.

By losing all benefits of the feat IM it is referring to the things that are specifically listed as benefits:

But wearing Medium armor doesn't make you lose the benefits of the feat.

It make you lose the benefits of the combat style. And one of the benefits of the combat style is "You are treated as having the Two Weapon Fighting feat".

If you lost the benefits of the feats gained from the combat style, I'd agree with you.

-Hyp.

 

[pawsplay]

No, you don't still have the feat.

The Combat Style means that you are treated as having (say) the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

If you wear Medium or Heavy armor, you lose all benefits of the Combat Style. So, in Medium armor, you are not treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Since you do not have the TWF feat (either actually or, from Combat Style, effectively), you no longer satisfy the prerequisites of Two-Weapon Defence, and cannot use that feat.

Combat Style (Ex): If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

The benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

-Hyp.

This is my interpretation. The thorny point here is that the way combat style is worded, you only have the feat under certain circumstances.

 

[Ranger REG]

Using the ranger combat style tree. If at 2nd level the ranger chose the 2 weapon fighting style and received the two weapon fighting feat then at 3rd level took 2 weapon defense (prerequisites Dex 15, 2 weapon fighting) and was wearing heavy armor you would still get the benefits of 2 weapon defense (as long as you had the Dex 15 prerequisite) even though you have lsot the ability to use 2 weapon fighting due to wearing the heavy armor. {You can still use 2 weapons, the feat only negates some penalties for fighting with that way}.

You may have retain the Dex 15 prerequisite, but at that time you don't have the TWF feat as the other prerequisite to TWD. Sorry, but if TWF is suspended while you're wearing a heavier armor, so does your TWD.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I have handled "virtual" feats.

 

[irdeggman]

Point well made Hyp.

I still think that the intent is wrong, but the text supports your argument and I haven't found anything else to counter it. The way it is written causes all kinds of game mechanics issues - like the feat chain issue listed.

This will just have to be a house-rule in my game.

 

[MarkB]

Point well made Hyp.

I still think that the intent is wrong, but the text supports your argument and I haven't found anything else to counter it. The way it is written causes all kinds of game mechanics issues - like the feat chain issue listed.

This will just have to be a house-rule in my game.

To my knowledge, those issues are entirely intentional. Just as you lose the benefits of a prestige class if you no longer meet its prerequisites, you lose the benefits of a feat chain if you no longer meet its prerequisites. This is true whether it occurs on a temporary or a permanent basis.