Ranger feedback

[Fenris]

So of course I have my alt.ranger too. It falls between the PHB and Monte's ranger and I am quite pleased with it. I have been insipired by several different rangers posted here and am gratefull to all the members I have borrowed concepts from. I won't bother posting it as I just wanted some feedback on one or two points. The first question I have is based around the fact that anyone can get the track feat. This means nearly anyone can track. Now only the Druid and the Barbarian can really challenge the Ranger in this field because of Wilderness Lore. But still I view the ranger as the master of tracking and the "expert" at identifying tracks. With this in mind I wanted to give the ranger a bonus that would accrue over level to his tracking. But since the feat function off the Wilderness Lore skill perhaps it would be better to give the bonus to the skill. This is not too unreasonable since the ranger "ought" to be unsurpased in this area. What is the general consensus? Advantages, disadvantages?
The second question I had was on favored enemy. I am keeping it the same but was considering reversing the bonus order i.e. the first bonus is +1 and is always +1, while the last is +5. While this makes less logical sense, mechanically it makes more as you will need the larger bonus latter against presumably more powerful enemies. I was also going to allow a ranger to slecy a favored enemy more than once and allow the bonuses to stack. Now I will use favored terrain and a favored animal as alternatives to an enemy so it is not the only option. Opinions? Problems?

 

[Mordane76]

I have an alt.ranger (won't belabor everyone with yet another alt.ranger) as well, and with what I did, I'll comment on your questions.

With this in mind I wanted to give the ranger a bonus that would accrue over level to his tracking. But since the feat function off the Wilderness Lore skill perhaps it would be better to give the bonus to the skill. This is not too unreasonable since the ranger "ought" to be unsurpased in this area. What is the general consensus? Advantages, disadvantages?

I think this might be overpowered, considering that a ranger's favored enemy bonuses apply to Wilderness Lore usages against that creature, IIRC; rangers are supposed to be good at what they do, and good at tracking their enemies, and the system lets them do that -- a +5 for tracking your first favored enemy is pretty good, IMO.

I was also going to allow a ranger to slecy a favored enemy more than once and allow the bonuses to stack. Now I will use favored terrain and a favored animal as alternatives to an enemy so it is not the only option. Opinions? Problems?

Dragonstar has some good ideas on the Ranger class, where I took most of my inspiration from. What you propose, however, seems a little extreme. If I read it correctly, by picking the same enemy twice, the second pick would immediately jump the bonuses against that enemy to +3 (+2 for first selection, +1 for second selection). If done a third time, it goes to +6... which is a far better bonus that most non-magical abilities can grant. If the ranger chose the same enemy all five times, he would have a +15 against that enemy, which I think is ludicrous; magical weapons won't give you that kind of bonus against any type of creature, unless they're epic weapons, and most magical skill-enhancing items won't help you that much either.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The first question I have is based around the fact that anyone can get the track feat. This means nearly anyone can track.

I, too was bothered by this. What I've done is make tracking with a DC of 20+ a class feature of rangers, in the same way that detecting traps with a DC 20+ is a class feature of rogues. Anyone can search for tracks with a DC of less then 20, but once it hits that magic number only someone with a class level can find the tracks.

This makes much more sense to me than the current mish-mash in the PHB. If you want to track, you NEED a level of ranger, just like if you want to find traps you NEED a level of rogue; balanced by the fact that simple traps and simple tracks can be found by anyone.

Secondly, I made following tracks always a function of [/]search[/i] and took Wilderness Lore out of the equation entirely. This has worked well so far.

The second question I had was on favored enemy. I am keeping it the same but was considering reversing the bonus order i.e. the first bonus is +1 and is always +1, while the last is +5.

The solution which I use is to give the ranger +1 favoured enemy point per odd level, which can be stacked onto an existing enemy or used to start a new one. This provides a more fluid growth during a campaign. As an additional bonus, if you reach 20th level as a ranger you get an additional +1 to all of your favoured enemies (akin to the benefits Monks and Barbarians get if they stick it out to 20th level).

Another alternative is to do it the Neverwinter Nights way, and say that you start with one at +1, at 5th level you have two at +2, at 10th level it is three at +3 and so forth. This seems like a pretty decent idea, and I'd certainly consider it carefully if one of my players wanted to take that route.

Cheers

 

[Mordane76]

I haven't played NWN, but I have to say I like their ranger Favored Enemy idea -- it sounds more useful and likeable than the PHB. Also, the Traps/Rogue ---> Track/Ranger idea sounds absolutely brilliant, although I don't know if I agree with trading Search out for Wilderness Lore. I think that Wilderness Lore is a good choice for tracking, at least a better than the sterile Search Skill, but that may just be an issue of flavor.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I haven't played NWN, but I have to say I like their ranger Favored Enemy idea -- it sounds more useful and likeable than the PHB. Also, the Traps/Rogue ---> Track/Ranger idea sounds absolutely brilliant, although I don't know if I agree with trading Search out for Wilderness Lore. I think that Wilderness Lore is a good choice for tracking, at least a better than the sterile Search Skill, but that may just be an issue of flavor.

I made the change because of the strange PHB ruling that you can use search for looking for tracks with a DC <20, but Track and Wilderness Lore for finding tracks with a DC 20+ - even in a dungeon or a town (not very wildernessy places). It's no big deal of course.

 

[hong]

So of course I have my alt.ranger too. It falls between the PHB and Monte's ranger and I am quite pleased with it. I have been insipired by several different rangers posted here and am gratefull to all the members I have borrowed concepts from. I won't bother posting it as I just wanted some feedback on one or two points. The first question I have is based around the fact that anyone can get the track feat. This means nearly anyone can track. Now only the Druid and the Barbarian can really challenge the Ranger in this field because of Wilderness Lore. But still I view the ranger as the master of tracking and the "expert" at identifying tracks.

While it's true that theoretically Track is open to anyone, I don't think I've ever seen it taken voluntarily. Unless you're a fighter, you only have 7-8 feats over the course of 20 levels, so each feat is precious. You don't want to waste them on something that's likely to be peripheral. If you're a fighter, you have plenty of feats, but the chances are you'll want to use them on things that will help you fight. Thus I don't think any changes to Track are necessary.

 

[Fenris]

Re: Re: Ranger feedback

I, too was bothered by this. What I've done is make tracking with a DC of 20+ a class feature of rangers, in the same way that detecting traps with a DC 20+ is a class feature of rogues. Anyone can search for tracks with a DC of less then 20, but once it hits that magic number only someone with a class level can find the tracks.

This makes much more sense to me than the current mish-mash in the PHB. If you want to track, you NEED a level of ranger, just like if you want to find traps you NEED a level of rogue; balanced by the fact that simple traps and simple tracks can be found by anyone.

Secondly, I made following tracks always a function of [/]search[/i] and took Wilderness Lore out of the equation entirely. This has worked well so far.



The solution which I use is to give the ranger +1 favoured enemy point per odd level, which can be stacked onto an existing enemy or used to start a new one. This provides a more fluid growth during a campaign. As an additional bonus, if you reach 20th level as a ranger you get an additional +1 to all of your favoured enemies (akin to the benefits Monks and Barbarians get if they stick it out to 20th level).

Another alternative is to do it the Neverwinter Nights way, and say that you start with one at +1, at 5th level you have two at +2, at 10th level it is three at +3 and so forth. This seems like a pretty decent idea, and I'd certainly consider it carefully if one of my players wanted to take that route.

Cheers

Thank you Plane Sailing
Currently anyone can track if the DC is less than 10. So does taking the Track feat allow tracking up to DC20 for non-rangers or is the track feat not available for non-rangers since everyone can track at DCs less than 20? I like the search instead of Wilderness Lore, good cohessiveness with the rouge detect traps fucntion. But does it weaken Wilderness Lore?

In regards to favored enemies, do you use any variant on it i.e. favored terrain or just favored enemies.

Thank you for your input PS.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: Ranger feedback

In regards to favored enemies, do you use any variant on it i.e. favored terrain or just favored enemies.

Thank you for your input PS.

I tried running with Favoured Terrain for a few months, but it was just a pain to keep track of, and in the end we completely ditched it.

Regarding favoured enemies I allow it to add damage to any type of creature - ooze, undead, construct or whatever. I don't see the favoured enemy damage bonus being similar to sneak attack in any way, shape or form, and I would no more disallow it on creatures immune to crits than I would disallow the morale damage bonus which those under a bardic song get, or the +2 damage bonus which a fighter gets if he has specialised in a weapon.

Cheers