Ranger's Twin Strike question

[Labon]

OK, I'm still getting the hang of combat from 1e to 4e and having trouble with reading the powers. Here's an example. Let's say a 2 blade 1st lvl ranger. His STR provides +2 to hit and damage and he's proficient with a short sword which gives him +3 to hit, let's assume no other modifiers. So a basic attack gives the ranger:

+5 to hit and the damage is 1d6 +2 (and he can only swing one sword)

Now our ranger holds two short swords and uses Twin Strike. What is the hit and damage?

It says: "Attack: Str vs AC" and "Damage: 1[w] per attack"

Is it only +2 to hit per sword, or is it +5 per sword? Do you add the +2 damage if you hit with the sword?

Thanks!

 

[Klaus]

If the attack has the "Weapon" keyword, then you add the proficiency bonus for the weapon. In this case, "Str vs. AC" means "+5 vs. AC".

Twin Strike doesn't add Str to damage, since it reads "1[w] damage", which is "1d6 damage" with a short sword (if it were a +1 short sword, it'd be "1d6+1"). If the power read "1[w] + Str modifier damage", then you'd deal "1d6+2".

 

[Mr. Wilson]

In short, you get to make 2 attacks at +5 vs AC, each doing 1d6 damage.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

What Klaus and Mr. Wilson have said is correct.

I just want to add that bonus damage from other sources, such as a feat or magic weapon, does get added to both attacks.

So if the example guy got a pair of +1 short swords and took Weapon Focus he would be +6 to attack and do 1D6+2 damage.

 

[BobTheNob]

Wow. Its a been a while since the last Twin Strike post. I was wondering where they had gone.

To OP (in a whisper) : Up your characters level and using everything you can to get static bonus's to damage : weapon focus, Iron Bands e.t.c. Then do some number crunching with twin strike. You will either say "Thats Awesome" or "Thats Broken" depending on your game philosophy

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, if he wants build advice...

1st +2 Str bonus is a 14 STR, which is a rather low STR for a Strength based melee class, 16 would be OK if he's also got high DEX and is going with a bow or sword flex type build, otherwise start with an 18 STR, which will be giving you a +4 STR bonus to-hit, which is a a HUGE advance in damage output over the +2 you have now.

2nd use longswords, they do 1d8 damage, so that's an instant +1 damage per hit over short sword (which is a truly worthless weapon in 4e and might as well not exist). Drop in Bastard Sword proficiency for an upgrade to 1d10 damage, another +1 (though other feats may yield better, Weapon Expertise for instance, or Weapon Focus will both help more right off).

3rd If you REALLY do want to stick with short swords (say for flavor reasons) then don't bother with Two Blade Fighting, it isn't doing a thing for you. It MIGHT still be worth it for the Toughness feat but you may want to consider picking the Archer build (and if you have MP1 or MP2 there are even better choices). You can pick up a more effective off-hand weapon later, like Katar or Kukri, or even Double Sword (not so popular these days but still not a bad choice).

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

strikers

should be doing a lot of damage.

Having a 4d8 + mods at-will charge and 1/turn sneak attacks makes heroic rogues better than rangers, IMO. (although I admit, I haven't seen the math yet. in practice it's hard to compute. If a warlord has to decide to Direct the Strike on the rogue with CA, or the ranger who's already applies HQ on his turn...the rogue will get the MBA every time)

In actual game play you can do sneak attack 2-3x per round for the duration of most combats, if you have a warlord and use tricks like using your action point to ready an attack one round, and set yourself up for extra SAs.

If you're clever, you can also position yourself for SA damage on OAs (smart chess players can pull off the sneak attack trick quite often). Having a party support the rogue getting off a lot of extra sneak attacks is a fun way to put the damage, at least in heroic, way back in favor of the rogues, which is fine.

It also depends on how cheesy is your Twin strike min-maxing. Not everyone uses frost cheese, or picks extra damage paragon paths to max out Twin Strike. Anyway, some combats last so long...if you reduced the damage on twin strike you'll have more people start yawning when killing a single solo is taking 2-3 hours to kill.

I really have to wonder if people who complain about Twin Strike have actually played the game. Our rogue outdamages me, the party ranger, more often than not, with the at-will 4d8 charge and minor action + readied action sneak attacks going off 2-3x per combat. This might not be the case by mid-paragon, but having Twin Strike allows me to diversify on non-min-maxy options while still helping the party kill stuff fast.

 

[Labon]

Once again, thanks for all the great advice and wisdom.

Well, if he wants build advice...

Actually, what I listed was just an example. I don't use short swords myself, and I have a better STR. It was just an example. But build advice is always welcome for me!

 

[Squire James]

Even without a bunch of static bonuses, Twin Strike = win for all rangers. Two chances for a critical hit. Two chances to trigger quarry damage. It's pretty interesting to note that, with all the cheese additional books have brought to 4e, good old PHB 1 Twin Strike is STILL probably the best at-will power in the game!

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

yep!

...until next monday, that is.