[Rant] I burned out last night...

pogre said:


I do agree that constant agonizing tactical decisions can really slow a game down. Removing minis can effectively remove this aspect of the game. One other solution I used in a game with a lot of younger players is to institute a no kibbitzing rule, and a state your action in 30 seconds rule.
Making tactical decisions is what combat is all about*. Long live minis.


*Tip: Be considerate to other players. KNOW the rule of the action you wish to attempt before you do so, and plan your move BEFORE your next turn. Doing these two things will DRAMATICALLY speed up combat on the battlemat.
 

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Flexor the Mighty! said:
I do think that more people want thier table top games to be more like CRPG's, which is a bad thing in my book. But that's neither here nor there.
But they also wanted that in 1974 when Gygax was first putting out his books.

Thing is, CrPGs are modelled off of the dungeon crawl side of roleplay that was dominant in the early days, and easiest to code in.
 

reapersaurus said:
I'm beginning to wonder if pen-and-paper RPGing has had its day.

It just seems that unless you get a magical combination of DM and players, than it's an exercise in frustration for the most part.

When was the last time you guys actually had a fulfilling session or campaign?

I don't know if modern society is lending itself to RPGing anymore - too many distractions, too hectic of pace, etc.

Thats a rather fatalistic statement-- it almost sounds like you're suffering form burnout as well.

If anything, it feels like RPG's are bigger than ever. You might argue that LotR movies and 80's nostalgia have something to do with it......still, I can get where you're coming from. Its really a miracle that we can actually play at all:

First, you need to collect a group of like-minded individuals:reasonably intelligent, imaginative, comfortable with some improvised theatrics, and decent with math. Plus, these individuals have some kind of passing interest in sword-and-sorcery fantasy.

Next, we need to get all these busy adults in one place at the same time regularly.

Now we need to hope that everyone can tolerate each other's personalities and play styles. Here's also hoping that they find the game itself satisfactory; so many house rules. So many supplements.(I think its unusual that the most time spent on this hobby is in preparation rather than play)

If you are in a regular game that you enjoy, my hat is off to you, because I truly believe you are the exception rather than the rule.

Still, we somehow manage to play when we can, and we love it. It may never be mainstream, but it will still have a niche for years to come.
 

my story

Man, I feel for you. I actually had almost the same problem (sounds as if you were playing with my group). Perhaps by telling you what happened to me I can alleviate your frustration a little, or at least show sympathy. Anyway, here goes...

I had been running a AD&D game for a few years with a group of 7 players. This group was mostly hell. All attempts at drama and background were just lost with those arguing about who got which magic item, the guy who slept on the couch and the guy who constantly ogled our two female players.

Then third edition came out, and I took the chance to disband the group.
I reassembled the first group I ever played with, 3 players and very good friends in addition to a somewhat new guy we'd only known for about two years.
We started in the Realms, and because I wanted to run a game asap not all players had a Player's Handbook (they were waiting for the German translation). I cut them slack on knowing rules and such.
I had planned a great campaign centering on an evil cleric who ruled over a fairly important town. In the course of the campaign, the players were thought to free the town, and while each came to grips with their own problems and quests, finally defeating the cleric.
In the second session, the players were captured. When I took the chance to have them meet the cleric, they made fun of him - constantly. After warning them in game and then out-of-game of possible consequences, the cleric killed one especially vocal player - who then accused me of DM bias.
My fearful antagonist had become a point of ridicule and DM-directed anger.
Fine. I didn't care, I could adapt, the point was having fun in making my players have fun.

Time went on, and I realized that the players were neither too interested in my story nor in getting to know the rules. One player showed up so inconsistently that I looked for a replacement and found one who quite exactly matched my expectations.
In order to renew the players' interest I took steps to bring the campaign to them. I used their backstories even more than before, I gave one player an affliction - he held one fourth of a great demon in him, which he could call forth but risking possession and finally total loss of personality. What possibilities for role-playing I foresaw when the player would tell the others what exactly had happened, when they went to find the others and banish the demon for good - or unleash him again, when one of their favorite NPCs joined them, when they traveled to a far-away jungle island to anoint another player with the grace of the snake queen, when one player's past caught up with him and he was pursued by a league of assassins, when the last player finally got a clue to the location of a mythical smithy where he would forge his own, ultimate weapon... man, I get excited when I start to think about it again.

But nothing. There was no reaction, my players just accepted every level of creativity I threw at them as almost satisfying their expectations while constantly whining about the rules as DM bias.
Then, one player made a new character - a drow - and accused me of being unfair when I had elves react hatefully towards him and attack him - of which I warned him before.
I was so fed up that I introduced the deck of fates and officially crashed my campaign with it.

But these were my friends. How could I tell them that I was so disappointed with their style of play? How could I critisize them without them taking it personally - especially the real problem player? I didn't think I could.
Then, I read something about Kalamar. It all sounded great, a new breeze, a world that was so much more my world than FR was. I bought the setting and loved it. I asked my group whether they wanted to playtest the Player's Guide, and we did. New expections, fun, excitement all around.

They all played humans, and one elf. Standard classes. Which was, of course, great for playtesting. Not.
Anyway, I thought, then I'll have my NPCs with new clases et al. Doesn't matter, as long as I have fun again.
The plot involved bringing back a scoundrel who had impregnated one of the PC's sisters. When they arrived in town, said scoundrel had been caught entering an evil temple and was held to be executed by said clergy. The players didn't know, of course, that the scoundrel was an agent for a good organisation one player wanted to get into, that strove for freedom and against slavery.
They forgot about the scoundrel. Anything would have been fine, but not that. One player remembered him and tried to save him. I threw a LOT of encouragement into the ring, but he decided in the end he wouldn not risk his character's life for a thief. Fine. It was in character, and all right.

But the player whose sister was pregnant used the whole week they had before the execution to craft a masterwork emerald for his psi-stone! The other players didn't care and had fun wrecking all relations I tried to built up between them and any NPC that came around.
The players didn't even use the new feats or powers from the Player's Guide - in my opinion, they never even read one page of it! (Perhaps one, but no more than one tenth of the book). They didn't give me their opinions on the book, or the game, so I took all of their off-hand comments, the results from game play, and from my own intensive check-up to write in as playtester comments. I had an obligation to Kenzer, and I tried to fulfill it (and I think I did, even though my group had almost no part in it except as the rocks I threw my creations on to see if they would break).

They didn't know the rules, no matter how often I told them. They weren't interested in the plot, or the detail I was putting into the game, all my work. They were interested in a friendly get-together. (All except one player, the earlier replacement, that is. He was fine.)
We even had the move-full attack-problem you mentioned, too.
And being my friends, I was hesistant to tell them all my worries that meanwhile were full-blown frustrations. I wouldn't have been able anymore to quietly state my gripes, it would have been accusatory in tone at least. So I just quit.

That was one year ago.

A short while later, I started DMing a totally different game, Trinity from WhiteWolf. Psionics, SciFi, different rules. It was a break from D&D without a break from gaming. I played with a new group, and we are all a little shaky on the rules, which is fine, as the game is not nearly as rules-heavy as D&D is. It's neither the best game nor the best campaign ever, but I can confidently say we're all having fun.

Eventually, I played in a D&D campaign with "the replacement" and two other nearly burntout DMs. It was a revelation. The group was - and continues to be - nearly perfect in what I expect from gaming, and working together (another venue where my former group lacked). We are having so much fun it hurts. We meet ~every two weeks and game 7 hours, and it's great.
I recently bought AU and feel relaxed enought to start a new campaign in the DT setting alternating with the other two DMs FR/Ravenloft campaign (one DMs FR the other Ravenloft, but with the same PCs).

I'm back!

As to the rest of the group, one is out of sight, the other two I see not as regularly as when we were still gaming, but we are still friends, and two weeks ago I attended one's wedding. They are still trying to get me to DM for them again, but without explicitly stating the reasons, I remain adamant.
 
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I just don't go to enough cons to do much Living Greyhawk gaming. Maybe if some of the local shops ran games I'd have more options but they don't do anything that isn't a collectable card game or Warhammer.

Flexor:

Check out the Living_Greyhawk Yahoo group. I'm sure that if you toss a post up to the group, there's someone in your area that runs modules regularly. Here in Columbus, there are usually 2 weekends a month of LG somewhere in town, and I can't imaging that in your neck of the woods it'd be much different.
 

pogre said:
Man, I miss St. Louis - I had some really great gaming sessions when I lived down there in the early 90's.

Hey, there is a great Hobby Store on South Hampton called, appropriately enough, The Hobby Shop. I bet if you check with the owner, Ken, he can help hook you up to play in a more serious group.

If that doesn't appeal - go to Blueberry Hill, have a beer, and throw some darts.

Did I mention - I sure miss St. Louis!

I'll have to check that place. The last few times I was in there it seemed like it was all models and Warhammer.

P.S. I'll have a beer at Blueberry Hill for you. I saw the other day that Jimmy Chamberlin was giving a drum clinic there and my jaw dropped. Then I saw it was the day before I got the paper.
 

rounser said:

Apply a coat of gloss varnish followed by a coat of matt varnish to your minis if you intend to game with them, as opposed to plonk them on a shelf somewhere.

As far as burnout goes, I'm not surprised. Publishers seem to be about products that, in a way, make the DM's job harder (i.e. more rules to keep track of, more setting material to read through) rather than easier (e.g. the existence of the odd non-megadungeon, non-complete-railroad campaign adventure, so you can concentrate purely on running the game for a campaign as a break from preparing or freeforming everything). Or at least, so says me. :)


They always get a coat of gloss followed by a coat of matt. They really bang those dice around. The escalating megasized D20 buying competition didn't help. But I don't know how many times I've had to touch figures up from chips from being mishandled.

I started running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil right after I got 3e, and now I wish I hadn't. I feel trapped in it, I hate it, and I have a grudge with Monte Cook for writing it. ;)
But if I cheese them out of it I will render two years( :eek: ) of gaming moot. Well I guess I'm going to do that anyway if I kill the game...
 

arcady said:
But they also wanted that in 1974 when Gygax was first putting out his books.

Thing is, CrPGs are modelled off of the dungeon crawl side of roleplay that was dominant in the early days, and easiest to code in.

That's not quite what I meant by that.
 

ForceUser said:
Making tactical decisions is what combat is all about*. Long live minis.


*Tip: Be considerate to other players. KNOW the rule of the action you wish to attempt before you do so, and plan your move BEFORE your next turn. Doing these two things will DRAMATICALLY speed up combat on the battlemat.

Oh, I quite agree. Obviously I love the tactical aspects of D&D and miniatures. I was just conceding it may make the game less enjoyable for some other folks.
 

Flexor the Mighty! said:


I'll have to check that place. The last few times I was in there it seemed like it was all models and Warhammer.
Yes there is a lot of model stuff, but it still is a great store.
Flexor the Mighty! said:

P.S. I'll have a beer at Blueberry Hill for you. I saw the other day that Jimmy Chamberlin was giving a drum clinic there and my jaw dropped. Then I saw it was the day before I got the paper.

Great enjoy!

The funny thing is when I lived down there I recruited my whole group out of that bar. The bartenders, cooks, and a couple of regulars. We used to play after close on Thursdays until 5:00 or 6:00 AM in the morning. Only a couple of them had played RPGs before and everybody was hooked - man what a blast.

Needless to say, I did not make it to too many Friday morning classes at law school!

Good luck with your predicament.
 

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