Rant: Midnight Gone Wrong...

[NTZ]

Read the Hobbit: The PCs almost never killed any bad guys.

The PCs were 13 dwarven characters and one hobbit.

The GM had a pet NPC that was a demi-god Wizard, who could do anything and everything.

The GM railroaded the PCs all the time in the Hobbit.

Seriously, you should be thanking your lucky stars your characters are still among the living and not whining about how tough the bad guys are. In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the bad guys.

Are you saying the game should read like a book? If that were the case, no one would need to bring character sheets or dice. Just gather around the fireplace and let the DM read the story.

Your perception of Midnight is incorrect. It is not "your characters can't kill the bad guys". I've run two sessions for my group and they have killed their fair share of 'the bad guys'.

NTZ

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Read the Hobbit: The PCs almost never killed any bad guys.

The PCs were 13 dwarven characters and one hobbit.

The GM had a pet NPC that was a demi-god Wizard, who could do anything and everything.

The GM railroaded the PCs all the time in the Hobbit.

"The Hobbit" is a novel, and not an RPG scenario. And there is an important difference. In a novel, the author does whatever he wants to the protagonists. In an RPG scenario, the PCs are supposed to be able to do things and make choices.

Seriously, you should be thanking your lucky stars your characters are still among the living and not whining about how tough the bad guys are. In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the bad guys.

In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the Big Bad Guy. The PCs should still be able to accomplish something. And just forcing the PCs to fight high-level opponents at low levels sounds kind of dumb to me. If the GM wants to introduce high-level NPCs in Midnight, then of course he is free to - but then the PCs should get some chance of avoiding combat with them.

If a GM did that to me, I'd be complaining too...

 

[Steverooo]

Seriously, you should be thanking your lucky stars your characters are still among the living and not whining about how tough the bad guys are. In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the bad guys.

Which is why a lot of people are asking "So what's the point? Why play?"

 

[Eremite]

(snip) In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the Big Bad Guy. The PCs should still be able to accomplish something. And just forcing the PCs to fight high-level opponents at low levels sounds kind of dumb to me. If the GM wants to introduce high-level NPCs in Midnight, then of course he is free to - but then the PCs should get some chance of avoiding combat with them.

If a GM did that to me, I'd be complaining too...

I think one of the keys to a long-term Midnight campaign is ensuring that there is some hope that something positive will be achieved.

Of course, some Midnight purists will disagree but human nature requires hope just as much as it requires food and water.

 

[Emiricol]

I've been in several Midnight campaigns, currently about to join another, and I'm running one using Riddle of steel, which is way more deadly than D&D for PCs - and in it, they've killed lots of bad guys.

In Midnight, the point is not that the PCs can't kill the bad guys. That's misleading. I see with absolute clarity that the problem is not with the setting - it's just a setting, and a damn fine one at that. The problem is with the DM's behavior, or at the very least, how the players view the DM's behavior. I'm pretty sure the DM isn't sitting there thinking to himself about ways to make his campaign the least fun it could be. Have a talk with with with all the players present, and present it as a talk on how you want the game to change rather than what he's doing wrong.

You know, the usual conflict resolution stuff. Or - just kill his pet PC and enjoy, because I know I've wanted to do that from time to time as a player

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Read the Hobbit: The PCs almost never killed any bad guys.

The PCs were 13 dwarven characters and one hobbit.

The GM had a pet NPC that was a demi-god Wizard, who could do anything and everything.

The GM railroaded the PCs all the time in the Hobbit.

Seriously, you should be thanking your lucky stars your characters are still among the living and not whining about how tough the bad guys are. In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the bad guys.

Beside the "that was a freakin' book, not a game session" point, which is most valid, there are some more considerations:

Gandalf wasn't there all the time.

The others accomplished things even though they were not "kill monster, take stuff". Bilbo won the riddle contest, bilbo saved the dwarven NPC's from the elves, and so on.

The GM didn't have to railroad them at all, as they were willing to do this quest. Railroading would have been if they had said: "We don't want to go through that forest, we'd rather go around even though it takes that much longer" and BAM! Orc hordes on the one side, unpassable swamp on the other (of which noone knew before that).

 

[Eremite]

Actually, this thread really needs to be retitled "Campaign (or DM) Gone Wrong".

 

[Bryan898]

Read the Hobbit: The PCs almost never killed any bad guys.

The PCs were 13 dwarven characters and one hobbit.

The GM had a pet NPC that was a demi-god Wizard, who could do anything and everything.

The GM railroaded the PCs all the time in the Hobbit

I believe I put in the part where instead of fighting the high level orc cheftain we tried to pick pocket what we needed. The party rogue got a 33 I believe, with a 19 roll (it's his specialty). The orc cheiftain warrior type (assuming he's doesn't have the skill) would have needed at least an 18 Wis at 17th level to get a 34 Sense Motive and beat the rogue's check. Instead the DM didn't even roll, and said you fail... Only one example of using good ideas but getting screwed because the DM didn't like it.

The Mary Sue article made a lot of sense, and explains why the character uses one of his favorite PC names .

The fact is, when something like this happens, you have to let the guy know what he's done that's making the game no fun for you. Don't pass the blame off on the setting: make it clear that it is the way he is running the setting that is bothering you.

I talked to the other players and we confronted him about it last night. Seems like it went rather well, though the person doesn't take criticism well. The Mary Sue will no longer be joining the group and he'll have to play out said character as a player next time. He's going to take a break while I get to DM again. Thankfully I have a large stockpile of adventures. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Nifft]

In Midnight, the whole idea is that your characters can't kill the Big Bad Guy. The PCs should still be able to accomplish something.

(Side Topic) Indeed... I'm reminded of this other post I once wrote:

I like Midnight, and I have to point out that Izrador has been defeated two out of three times he attacked. We can do it again! We can wipe his stain from our land! We may not be able to gut him like a craven Orc, but we can surely cleanse the land of his damned minions! We can reduce his power and bringing hope back into Aryth, until such time as Aryth herself vomits his foul soul into the blackest hell!

So, not quite without hope.

(/Side Topic)

Glad you got out from under that bad DM.

Cheers, -- N

 

[BryonD]

"The Hobbit" is a novel, and not an RPG scenario. And there is an important difference. In a novel, the author does whatever he wants to the protagonists. In an RPG scenario, the PCs are supposed to be able to do things and make choices.

A related point: RPGs are supposed to entertain the players (and GM). Books are supposed to entertain the reader without regard to the characters.

It is fun to read about Frodo. It would SUCK to BE Frodo.