RANT - Obsession with Clerics

[Darth K'Trava]

We had a party that DIDN'T have a cleric in because noone really wanted to play one..... Instead, we had a druid and a paladin. Then the group broke up (in-game related stuff) and the players (except for me) came back with new characters, one of which is a cleric/paladin. The one "stickler" was to disallow any chaotic characters due to the DM's gf who played a "super-chaotic" character that not only rubbed the party the wrong way, but the PLAYERS as well... So, we had a totally LG party that meshed well together but now there's been some character shifts (we hinted at one guy that we kinda needed a wizard so he made one).

We've not had too much problem getting someone to play the cleric in any game.... there was a discussion about who was going to play what in one game; we were down to the cleric and the ranger... and the other player vehemently said he wouldn't play the cleric so he got to play the ranger..... and I ended up playing the cleric. Then proceeded to make a "battle cleric" who concentrated mostly on kicking ass and healing later, unless the need was dire. The cleric didn't concentrate too much on spellcasting boosts until much higher levels (after I'd taken abt all her feats as combat-related ones... ) Same "doctrine" for rezzing anyone. She never prepped True Rez but would get it the next AM if we needed it. She did carry around a few 5k worth diamonds (3.0 pricing) and the ranger also carried a couple.

But for the most part, getting someone to play a cleric hasn't been a hassle and we've never had the need for a "tagalong" NPC cleric to provide the healing. In the cleric-less group, the DM compensated for the lack of major amounts of healing that the druid (primary healer) couldn't provide, nor could the, at the time, spell-less paladin with her lay on hands ability not providing much.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Who are all these people who don't play clerics?

Since 3.0 I've had to ration out cleric roles for fear of conflicting ideologies or overtly religious quests (which are fun but boring when repeated). The only time I ask a player to fill a role is when I include it in some plot device or have some specific mission planned for a 'balanced' party--usually a dungeon that needs both arcane and divine casting to complete.

Alternatively, I've played in a game for about a year now that has never had an arcane caster and we've had very little difficulty; though, it is a decidedly low-magic campaign. And, I happen to be a greataxe weilding cleric with profession (executioner) who wades deep into combat every chance he gets...holy combat that is.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

personally I like the idea of the forcefull, armed, buffed @ss kicken servant of (clerics god)
It gets boring being the party buffer and healer, on any given night at least half the clerics spells are dedicated to healing and buffing. In 1 campaign we have 2 clerics, 1 casts mass bull str, the other casts a bonus to saves, high level spell cant remember the name, the wiz does mass haste (found wand with 19 charges left) and everyone goes..the party communicates to the clerics who needs back up and/or healing and we adjust from there...rarely do any plans stay intact beyond the first melee.

Thorncrest

 

[kenobi65]

I think Unearthed Arcana has rules for vitality points and wounds, which might be suitable.

Yes, UA has a VP/WP system...but I'd be *very* hesitant to use it in a D&D game. Given how much damage some creatures can do with a single blow (esp. those with extraordinary size and / or Strength), and how few WPs most PCs will have (unless you spend feats, WP=Con, and it doesn't go up with level), crits look to be extremely deadly in this system.

VP/WP work pretty well in games like Star Wars and Spycraft, where most characters (PCs and NPCs) aren't usually capable of reliably cranking out 20+ points of damage in a single blow (high-level Jedi with lightsabers being a notable, and scary, exception).

 

[AuraSeer]

(Amusing thing - a high CON score means it takes LONGER to heal from zero!)

That's because if they're both at zero, the character with high Con has taken more hits.

Say the low Con character has 60 total hp. He was hit with a maximized fireball, and healing from that takes a certain number of days. The high Con dude may have 80 total hp; he gets blasted with the same maximized fireball, then bashed a few times with a greatclub. They both end up at zero hit points, but of course the latter will take longer to get better.

The same explains why, when everyone is at 0 hp, classes with large hit dice need the most healing time. If the wizard had taken as much damage as the fighter, he wouldn't heal faster; in fact he probably wouldn't heal at all, because he'd be dead.

 

[fusangite]

I think what is necessary in every party is a healer of some kind. I've never found that one specifically needed a cleric; druids, paladins or bards usually serve just fine in place of clerics. (Even a rogue with a healing wand and a very high Use Magic Device skill could do the job.) Still, I think there is a weird game balance problem that this issue is masking.

Essentially, it's a pain to spend your time in combat healing your comrades instead of dishing out damage to the bad guys. In exchange for this apparent loss of fun, the rules then soup up clerics to be by far the most powerful class. If you don't believe me, try putting up an all-cleric party against anything else.

It is unfortunate that healing others instead of fighting is so unfun but it seems to me that unless the damage system is changed, this is just going to be a weird situation where extra in-game power is conferred in exchange for a loss of playing fun.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I don't alter my DM style or provide NPCs for parties that don't have healers. They can either play smarter or die faster.

However, I do allow a number of non-Cleric ways of getting healing; since most of the cure spells are on the Bard's list, Wizards, Sorcerors, and even Hexblades can pick up one with a feat. I try to make sure to give out a good number of wands of cure light wounds. I use the d20 Modern version of the Treat Injury skill. I allow the Sangehirn psionic PrC.

I'm considering house-ruling natural healing to be accelerated with a good CON bonus, and I allow the feat from Complete Warrior that increases natural healing rate. (I've had no takers so far.)

In general, my house rules also lend the PCs to taking less damage overall; they get hit less, but individual hits are far more dangerous. This suits my image of what combat should be better than a slow attrition.

 

[A'koss]

I'm considering house-ruling natural healing to be accelerated with a good CON bonus, and I allow the feat from Complete Warrior that increases natural healing rate. (I've had no takers so far.)

Reserve Points from Unearthed Arcana is another good way to take burden off the cleric's shoulders. I use a variant of that in lower magic game and it's worked very well. Coupled with a faster healing rate and you can pretty much take magical healing right out of the game...

 

[Razz0putin]

They don't NEED a cleric but like many here have said it helps. This is proven even within your own mini rant by the party either buying healing or basically hiring a cleric to come along and effectivly be the tag along cleric. Now Should a player have to play this no but most modules expect you to have one and it's even in the dmg somewhere about certain encounters are a lot tougher without clerics. Now players should take the class because they want to play a character that truly believes in whatever the god believes in and truly wants to help/hurt/be indifferent to people. Unfortunately some people see this rich class as only they've got all of X number of abilities.

 

[reanjr]

Now, I know I'm asking for trouble for bringing this up, but I'm starting to get a little tired with reading threads about parties without Clerics and people insisting Clerics are an essential part of an adventuring party.

Games I run rarely have clerics. None of my current players enjoys them very much. They're not necessary to play the game, but they are necessary if you plan on playing the game as designed (multiple minor encounters a day with one big encounter at the end and maybe a moderately big one in the middle). Published adventures assume you have a cleric and are written with that in mind. It can really change some logistics in the game.