[Rant] Oh. My. God. He said no!

[Wayside]

A lot of you are pretty quick to jump on the only side of the story you've actually heard. The player does sound ridiculous, but DM's who go on power trips are just as bad, and are just as expendable. Talk about an inflated sense of self-importance.

 

[mythago]

Huh? Nobody was defending power-tripping GMs. If you can think of a side to this story that would explain the PC being reasonable and the GM being an ass, I'm all ears.

I mean, the second a player said "Mythago wouldn't kill us!" my OTHER players would be laughing themselves sick.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I say buckle on the Boots of Ass-kicking and Distance and go to work. Separate him before he infects the rest of the herd with his madness.

 

[Paradoxish]

A lot of you are pretty quick to jump on the only side of the story you've actually heard. The player does sound ridiculous, but DM's who go on power trips are just as bad, and are just as expendable. Talk about an inflated sense of self-importance.

Well, that's partly why I didn't kick him out right then and there. The point is for everyone to have fun, and if someone isn't having fun at the game I want to do something about it. On the other hand, there's no excuse for being an immature ass and refusing to play until you get your way. You're right, you are only getting one side of the story, but that's why I put the rant disclaimer up.

In my biased opinion, I don't think I was being unfair. The adventure was going fairly well, but the players as a whole made a bunch of bad choices. They ran from fights they could have won and charged into situations that they would have been better off sneaking around. In the end, they backed themselves into a situation that they couldn't possibly win. The combat lasted about ten rounds too long, since I was seriously underplaying the NPCs to give them a chance to run away. Finally I decided that they wouldn't get the message until bad things started happening, so I played the NPCs normally and stopped fudging rolls. Everything from that point on was completely legit and by the book.

 

[Kichwas]

Next game I'm going to just explain the situation to everyone and let them know that exactly what's been bothering me (the metagaming, the arguments, etc.) and if we can't resolve it I'll just have to give up on this particular group.

Can't win them all and I guess some groups just aren't meant to game together.

True.

And do realize that you may lose the situation in the end and find the group ending.

Sometimes you have to be willing to let that happen though. Better that than continue to run an unrunable game.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Huh? Nobody was defending power-tripping GMs. If you can think of a side to this story that would explain the PC being reasonable and the GM being an ass, I'm all ears.

I mean, the second a player said "Mythago wouldn't kill us!" my OTHER players would be laughing themselves sick.

I'm not making any specific comments on the situation at hand, but in my experience two things generally apply to such incidents:

1.) Both individuals are being asses in their own way.

2.) There is nothing unusual about someone being 'reasonable' and still being an ass.

Certainly there isn't anything inherently 'unreasonable' or asslike, and I always refer to the noble beast of burden, in the point of view that an RPG session is about telling a story and the story isn't served by the party dying in the hallway. So let's move the story along and travel down the hallway.

I've known a lot of players who thought of this sort of thinking as a courtesy to the DM and the group. And a lot of DMs for whom this thinking is absolutely accurate.

Further, anyone who is not upset over the unexpected death of not only his own character but his friends' as well is probably not too into the game. And anyone who wouldn't be embarassed by the incidents described is questionable in their own right.

And in the final analysis, 20 years old is not old enough to guarantee maturity on such a level that everyone around that person should expect it all the time. 20 sure ain't a kid, but it's not old enough to drink or run for most public offices for a reason.

Heck it's not exactly reasonable to expect everyone to act a mature fashion when under stress no matter what age is involved.

My only conclusion from the above thoughts to the situation is that it certainly is not a judgement that should be made in terms of the idea that someone was or was not being reasonable and someone else was or was not being an ass.

BTW, as a Powerhungry DM I am both unreasonable and an Ass so I have a lot of authority by experience in these matters.

 

[ced1106]

"Bob" (in an amazingly blatant act of metagaming) convinces the rest of the group that I'd never let them die here and they turn back into the fight.

Random comment: As a CoC GM, I'll introduce an NPC whose sole purpose is to appear to be useful, only to trigger the deathtrap and die a horrible ugly death. Not sure how to integrate this into D&D, but that's one way to get a message across.

Anyway, another vote to kick Bob off the island. Easier to play with one less player than one less GM.

Hey, maybe if you try this NPC technique, you can call hims "Roberto"... (;


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[thalmin]

You don't have to kick him out of the game, but you don't have to give in, either. If he refuses to play unless you do it his way, tell him you are not changing your mind. It's his decision to play or not.

 

[Larry Fitz]

The following should NOT be considered as viable options:

1.) Kill him

2.) Apologize for killing the characters that died and congtratulate him on his forthright approach and clarity of thought.

3.) Dock his character 8 points of Charisma for being a horse's patootie.

4.) Wear a t-shirt with the names of as many mass murderers on it as you can think of, written in crayon, with yours in there as well. Ask him if he's really sure they aren't dead, and keep asking without responding to anything he or any of the other players say.

5.) Hire a singing telegram to deliver the following message:

"Roses are red,
Oak trees are stout,
you couldn't play nice,
So I kicked your butt out."

6.) Call him 'Blackleaf' from now on. In-game and out.

7.) Using a can of charcoal starting fluid spell the letters N-O on his character sheet and light them up, then comment how much you loved the movie "The Crow".

8.) Blame Piratecat... on second thought, maybe you can do that one....

9.) Have him DM the group for a year, during which you do your best to play in the same juvenile manner that he's been playing.... while dressed as a clown (this one is better if you can get every player to dress as a clown and never make any reference to it, nor acknowledge any reference to it by him)

10.) Convince to play in one of MY campaigns....

The following might be something you could do:

Explain that without risks the challenge is gone andyou might as well all sit around and just talk, rather than roll dice. There is risk inherent in the game and your job as GM is to present challenges to the group while all of you together tell an interesting and exciting story. Meta-gaming detracts from all of that for everyone. Apologize to him for not pointing out that his using the OOG rationale to convince the others to go back was not appropriate and resulted in the character deaths. Understand that as DM is your responsibility to let players know when they cross the line, you failed in that responsibility when he started telling the other players "Let's go, he won't kill us..." You should have told him, "I'm not going to fudge any rolls, in fact I'll roll them all in front of all of you, telling you in advance what the bad guys need to hit you, however the dice roll is what will happen." At that point the other players would have realized the folly of listening to him and if anyone went backl it would have just been him... and probably worth killing him if he did....


Or....

Just kick his butt out.




10.)

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

In the end, they backed themselves into a situation that they couldn't possibly win. The combat lasted about ten rounds too long, since I was seriously underplaying the NPCs to give them a chance to run away. Finally I decided that they wouldn't get the message until bad things started happening, so I played the NPCs normally and stopped fudging rolls.

As a player and as a DM, this annoys me. For two reasons:

1) No offense, but I do not like it when DM's fudge rolls. The DMG be damned. Fudging rolls is what leads to metagaming and complacent players in the first place. Let the dice fall where they may. (I always roll combat dice and saving throws in front of PCs. Not to say that you should do that, but it makes me more of a referee, instead of the me vs. them attitude. Objective referee vs. subjective hand-of-god who jerks the PCs' chains.)

2) This also seems like the DM put the PCs in an un-win-able situation. If the NPCs were bad, and the PCs didn't stand a chance, then what are the PCs doing fighting the NPCs in the first place? Two possibilities exist: a) the PCs chose to fight the NPCS, regardless of obviously being outmatched or b) the PCs were forced to fight the NPCs by the DM. The first situation is the PCs' fault, and the PCs deserve a few deaths (or even a TPW.) The second situation is the DM's fault.


I'm not saying these are the only problems. Granted, your player probably is as immature as you describe him. But I've also found, IMX, that immature players can be dealt with by using good DMing tactics. (And I'm not talking about me. I'm mediocre as a DM. *grin*)

My advice: Stick to your guns. The PCs died. So what? I've been through many deaths (some by my fault, some by the DM's). If the player in question is a dedicated gamer, he'll keep going. He may complain every once in a while, but the thrill of the game will keep him coming.