D&D 4E Rant on the 4E "Presentation"

[JoeGKushner]

The biggest problem is D&D is not a hobby you can enjoy alone. All the others you list can be enjoyed with or without other people. If you can't find people to play with then D&D becomes a substantial investment with little or no return. People never seem to factor this in when discussing "cost". If I buy the core and can't convince others to play I essentially spent money for no reason... I'm just sayin

It's one of the reasons why comparissions of D&D to say, computer or console games always fall flat on their face. I don't recall having to have to wait to play Fable while my friend's broken leg healer or cancelling a game of Guild Wars because another friend was working overtime.

 

[Veander]

No matter how you spend your D&D money (lots like some or not at all like others), 4e is asking even the poor folks to go out and spend something. It's more about getting them to cough up enough cash to buy those three core rulebooks than it is to actually improve the game. Again, it's been only a couple years since 3.5. We had 10 years with 2nd edition. About the same with 1st. That was a good amount of years. I haven't played 3.5 to death yet mostly because D&D isn't like a video game that finishes in 20 hours of gaming. It takes over a year to actually run through a campaign. I know once 4e is here and if it's actually some great stuff I'll stop feeling uneasy about it. Sooner or later. But for right now, based on it's presentation, I don't havea good feeling.

 

[Hussar]

The biggest problem is D&D is not a hobby you can enjoy alone. All the others you list can be enjoyed with or without other people. If you can't find people to play with then D&D becomes a substantial investment with little or no return. People never seem to factor this in when discussing "cost". If I buy the core and can't convince others to play I essentially spent money for no reason... I'm just sayin

Any team sport is the exact same thing. I have to go buy hockey gear in order to play on a team.

Meh, the whole "finding people to play" thing is a thing of the past and has been for years. Between all the virtual tabletops out there, if you cannot find a group to play with regularly, there's something seriously wrong. I know for a fact that even with the tiny community with OpenRPG, I can get into a game 7 days a week.

 

[hong]

It comes down to how picky you are. Some people like playing in pickup groups in W*W or Guild Wars. Others prefer to play only with friends.

 

[med stud]

No matter how you spend your D&D money (lots like some or not at all like others), 4e is asking even the poor folks to go out and spend something. It's more about getting them to cough up enough cash to buy those three core rulebooks than it is to actually improve the game. Again, it's been only a couple years since 3.5. We had 10 years with 2nd edition. About the same with 1st. That was a good amount of years. I haven't played 3.5 to death yet mostly because D&D isn't like a video game that finishes in 20 hours of gaming. It takes over a year to actually run through a campaign. I know once 4e is here and if it's actually some great stuff I'll stop feeling uneasy about it. Sooner or later. But for right now, based on it's presentation, I don't havea good feeling.

Well yes, even poor people has to spend money to get 4e D&D. But if they are too poor to buy the 4e core they are too poor to buy supplements for 3.5 and then it doesn't matter if 3.5 is out of print or not.

 

[Nifft]

No matter how you spend your D&D money (lots like some or not at all like others), 4e is asking even the poor folks to go out and spend something.

Not bloody much.

If you can afford the electrons to post here, you can afford most of D&D. Only one person in the group needs a PHB (for the experience table & character creation).

4e will also have an SRD.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Imaro]

Any team sport is the exact same thing. I have to go buy hockey gear in order to play on a team.

Meh, the whole "finding people to play" thing is a thing of the past and has been for years. Between all the virtual tabletops out there, if you cannot find a group to play with regularly, there's something seriously wrong. I know for a fact that even with the tiny community with OpenRPG, I can get into a game 7 days a week.

You know IMHO, it's funny how...the internet only represents a small portion of D&D players whenever it's convenient, but when it's not then sudenly the internet is full of gamers willing to play in online games. Which one is it?

As far a team sports...you don't have to actually spend the time organizing these games, creating a schedule, etc. You show up (with your equipment) and play, unless you're the coach or something...but even then there are usually established leagues you can easily join.

 

[Hussar]

You know IMHO, it's funny how...the internet only represents a small portion of D&D players whenever it's convenient, but when it's not then sudenly the internet is full of gamers willing to play in online games. Which one is it?

As far a team sports...you don't have to actually spend the time organizing these games, creating a schedule, etc. You show up (with your equipment) and play, unless you're the coach or something...but even then there are usually established leagues you can easily join.

And, typically, for the majority of players, there are established groups that you can easily join.

Finding a group isn't all that difficult. Finding a GOOD group is a different matter.

I dunno, I guess I'm just lucky, but, even traveling on three different continents, living in countries where I don't speak the language, I've still managed to find a group all the time. Granted, I play online now, but, that's still play.

Oh, and on the minority/large number thing. It doesn't take a large number of gamers to make an online community work. If you have a 1000 gamers, which works out to about 200 groups, that's a game being run every hour of the day, seven days a week. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

 

[allenw]

Again, it's been only a couple years since 3.5. We had 10 years with 2nd edition. About the same with 1st. That was a good amount of years.

I know it doesn't feel that long, but 3.5 came out in July 2003, so it's actually been around for over 4 years. By the time 4e is out, 3.5 will have been out for nearly 5 years, and it will have been nearly 8 years since 3.0. So, comparable with the lifespan of 2nd edition.

 

[Nifft]

You know IMHO, it's funny how...the internet only represents a small portion of D&D players whenever it's convenient, but when it's not then sudenly the internet is full of gamers willing to play in online games. Which one is it?

I always thought:

1/ Forum participants are a vocal minority (WotC's site included); yet

2/ Most gamers have access to the Internet. Large number.

No contradiction. But the number willing to play online isn't necessarily captured in either of those numbers above. I don't play on-line, so I don't have any numbers for the various apps, but I'll bet WotC will have some within their first year of DI.

Hopefully, the success or failure of the DI won't impact my ability to use 4e at all.

Cheers, -- N