D&D 4E Rant on the 4E "Presentation"

[Magus Coeruleus]

Everyone's entitled to their gripes. IMHO, though, it's unreasonable to complain about the amount of detail released thus far. Standard operating procedure when revealing info over a span of over half a year to have it released at a trickle. My gripe, though it doesn't make me gnash my teeth or lose sleep, is the "overecstatic superfluous PR" (broghammerj). That is, I expect positive spin, and I expect enthusiasm. If I didn't see those things I'd worry greatly. But it just seems so over-the-top schmaltzy at times, e.g. some of those podcasts. Somewhere there's a line where the hype sounds less like infectious enthusiasm and more like pure marketing, then a further line where it sounds disturbingly like compensation for an inferior product. It doesn't sound anywhere near the third to me, but definitely flirting with the second.

 

[Rykion]

The way company PR releases information over several months is to start with as little information as possible and then slowly increase the info flow as release day approaches. That way, they build anticipation in the target audience. The lack of information at the beginning can be frustrating, but most people will remember the large amount of information that was slowly spilled leading up to the release as a positive thing. If you start with a gush of information, you risk having to slow to a trickle as the release approaches which actually hurts anticipation. You also risk releasing too much information too early, and annoying everyone that wants to buy the product as they have to wait several months to get a product with little new info coming out. As has already been mentioned, early information release can also be inaccurate as things can change during playtesting and development.

 

[Kesh]

Quite frankly, I think part of the reason WotC is keeping things so close to the chest (aside from the obvious marketing reasons) is the fan (over)reaction to the end of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

While people had every right to be upset, the sheer level of vitriol that was leveled at individuals from WotC was staggering. Anyone who actually stepped onto the boards to try and offer a clarification or personal insight was attacked, insulted and occasionally threatened. You'll note that the presence of such figures dropped off rather quick after that.

I think some folks in Wizards are still a bit wary of similar treatment and, given some of the posts on this very board, I can't blame them. So, they're playing it safe and keeping things at arm's length.

Which still gets them attacked, but that's the Internet for you.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I have nothing against releasing information in small bits or stringing out the pace. My problem is with the tone of the PR itself. When I read the blogs I don't see a person I see a faceless marketing division raking through everything with a fine-toothed comb to create a "just so" presentation. And that annoys me regardless of who does it. The poster below expresses my sentiments better than I can.

My gripe, though it doesn't make me gnash my teeth or lose sleep, is the "overecstatic superfluous PR" (broghammerj). That is, I expect positive spin, and I expect enthusiasm. If I didn't see those things I'd worry greatly. But it just seems so over-the-top schmaltzy at times, e.g. some of those podcasts. Somewhere there's a line where the hype sounds less like infectious enthusiasm and more like pure marketing, then a further line where it sounds disturbingly like compensation for an inferior product. It doesn't sound anywhere near the third to me, but definitely flirting with the second.

I think pretty much all of the individual designers and employees sound like ordinary people, interesting ones I wouldn't mind gaming with. But the overbearing nature of the corporate message over their shoulder turns me off. I'll openly admit it's not about WOTC in particular. I feel the same way regardless of what group is doing it, any bureacratic entity at all, its corporate "culture" itself that turns me away and this is just one example of it.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I have nothing against releasing information in small bits or stringing out the pace. My problem is with the tone of the PR itself. When I read the blogs I don't see a person I see a faceless marketing division raking through everything with a fine-toothed comb to create a "just so" presentation. And that annoys me regardless of who does it. The poster below expresses my sentiments better than I can.



I think pretty much all of the individual designers and employees sound like ordinary people, interesting ones I wouldn't mind gaming with. But the overbearing nature of the corporate message over their shoulder turns me off. I'll openly admit it's not about WOTC in particular. I feel the same way regardless of what group is doing it, any bureacratic entity at all, its corporate "culture" itself that turns me away and this is just one example of it.

It kills me that we are bending over backwards to give out as much information as we feel is in the best interest of keeping people engaged and excited 8 months before the launch when we are still playtestsing and we get crapped on for doing what we do.

Never in my years working in marketing have I seen a company be this interactive and responsive to a community and we still get blamed for being "corporate" and "faceless". I bet if we gave these same people a one hundred dollar bill they would complain because it wasn't two. :\

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I'm not sure if this has been talked about before, but I watched some of the big 4 part presentation of 4E on Youtube and it really ticked me off. Has there been more (better) info released on 4E.

That presentation... it almost made me want to smack that guy. Have you ever heard someone talk endlessly without actually saying anything? Thats what he was doing and it was so fustrating I could not stand to watch the whole thing. He keept talking about how player/monster roles will be more defined, the "sweet spot" will be extended, the game will be more user friendly, and so on. But he never actually tells you anything about the new rules, no mechanics or anything. I know those things arent fully fleshed out yet, but its fustrating when you spend 5 minutes listening to someone talk and you realize they havent actually told you anything.

I think the guys that made that presentation would make great polititions. They could go on for hours, explaining a new bill without actually telling you anything about the bill. "This bill will cut health care costs, clean up the enviroment, and find homes for abandoned puppies." That's all good and well but you havent actually told us anything about whats in the bill. We dont know any more about it then we did before you gave your long winded speech.

I know that presentation has been out for a while, I am a little late in getting caught up. I hope some solid info on 4E has been released since then.

/rant off
sorry you all had to sit through that.

Look, the presentation was in a room of over one thousand people and was not meant to be a fireside chat on the ins and outs of 4th edition. It was meant to say "hey would like to announce this product that will come out in 10 months, come to the seminars, and check out D&D Insider for more info".

Bill and Chris are game designers, they are not professional presenters or even guys who get in front of large crowds on a regular basis. They are two guys who bust their butts working on a game that they love. They are not slick but they are credible. We could have put some slick PR frontman up there and had some razzle dazzle I-Phone multi-media blablahblah lazer light show and if we had it would have made a great soundbite but would look pretty damn fake. Instead we chose to use real game designers who love D&D and want to share that with the rest of the D&D community.

As you have acknowledged, you are about 2 months behind on what has been released. As you asked, yes a lot more info has been released.

Go to the wotc D&D page read staff blogs, playtest reports, articles, threads here and on the WOTC 4e boards etc.

Morrus and the EN members have done an awesome job of summarizing the info so far on the front page that may be a good place to get caught up

 

[MerricB]

Never in my years working in marketing have I seen a company be this interactive and responsive to a community and we still get blamed for being "corporate" and "faceless". I bet if we gave these same people a one hundred dollar bill they would complain because it wasn't two. :\

G'day, Scott!

To (mis)quote Sulaco (who posted a lot on the Wizards DDM boards... might still do), "You could give some of the folk around here free money and they'd complain about the way it was folded".

And that was about three years ago he said that.

Just for the other side of it: thank you for all the blogs. I think this is the best Wizards have ever been for giving out information. (And that's saying something, considering how good my relationship was with Charles Ryan during his day in your job...)

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I agree. The (worst) thing i am going to remember about the 4e announcement is how WotC bent backwards to supply a steady stream of information, and everybody acted if this was totally to be expected. There ARE people out here that really appreciate the work the company is putting in supplying tidbits about the upcoming game. And i personally appreciate the personal viewpoints of the designers even more. Yes, it´s marketing. So what? Everybody knows that WotC is trying to sell us their game. It´s nevertheless absolutely cool that they do it this way. That the reactions are typical for teh Intarweb is only to be expected.

Me, i am happy. Eh, i would be happy if i could migrate my D&D Insider account to Gleemax without having a forum account.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

It kills me that we are bending over backwards to give out as much information as we feel is in the best interest of keeping people engaged and excited 8 months before the launch when we are still playtestsing and we get crapped on for doing what we do.

Never in my years working in marketing have I seen a company be this interactive and responsive to a community and we still get blamed for being "corporate" and "faceless". I bet if we gave these same people a one hundred dollar bill they would complain because it wasn't two. :\

Scott

Thank you for responding, I've seen your responses on this board and you seem like an interesting personable guy. As they say, it's not you it's me. As an individual you aren't faceless and corporate, none of the designers are either. I think the problem has nothing to do with the amount of bending over backward WoTC does, which is a lot. Essentially the problem is that my experiences with corporations and bureaucracies have been so bad marketing itself drives me away. Regardless of how hard WoTC tries to do good by its customers, it's still a corporation large enough to have crossed the "faceless" threshold for some of us with bad experiences. It doesn't reflect on the individuals who work for that company.

 

[Wolfspider]

It kills me that we are bending over backwards to give out as much information as we feel is in the best interest of keeping people engaged and excited 8 months before the launch when we are still playtestsing and we get crapped on for doing what we do.

Never in my years working in marketing have I seen a company be this interactive and responsive to a community and we still get blamed for being "corporate" and "faceless". I bet if we gave these same people a one hundred dollar bill they would complain because it wasn't two. :\

*hugs*

Don't let it get to you too much. People are strange.