D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Pedantic]

I missed that tangent. What the heck was the argument for it generating light?

Oh, that was just 3.5 RAW. Here's the spell:

This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.

And here's the general rules on illumination:

In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.

In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a -2 penalty to AC, moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and most Strength and Dexterity-based skill checks.

Shadowy illumination is less dark than darkness.

 

[Faolyn]

And yet the game text has "destroyed". It uses this word in a game-system sense, rather than simulative.

It will be a poor interpretation that interprets a "minion is destroyed when it takes any amount of damage" in a way that results in a minion taking some amount of damage and not being destroyed.


I disagree. Knocking Creatures Unconscious generally applies to all monster roles. The Minion monster role specifically asserts an exception to it.

In one game. Other games act differently. In Daggerheart, the word "defeated" is always used, with one exception that I can find: a sample of play where skeleton minions were destroyed.

Why not just use a different word than destroyed or killed? It's not like gamers have never reworded or rewritten rules before.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Oh, that was just 3.5 RAW. Here's the spell:

And here's the general rules on illumination:

Shadowy illumination is less dark than darkness.

Right. Just one example of why I balance judging the narrstive intent of a role with the stated effects. Much like minions somehow having a DIFFERENT biology than their source creature.

 

[Faolyn]

Some people can do that, but others have a real hard time with the lack of setting logic required to make that concept work.

There's no setting logic needed. Hit points represent how long it takes for a creature to be out of play. A minion is out of play really quickly. The end. This isn't even a narrative interpretation. It's sim, designed to represent the difference between unimportant opponents and opponents that are more important.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's no setting logic needed. Hit points represent how long it takes for a creature to be out of play. A minion is out of play really quickly. The end. This isn't even a narrative interpretation. It's sim, designed to represent the difference between unimportant opponents and opponents that are more important.

No, that's not sim, IMO it's naked gamism, designed to create a specific sort of challenge, plus a dash of narrative mechanics (to encourage the "characters cuts through scads of enemies like butter, per the developers) story element. There's nothing sim about it, at least in terms of process sim. You can tell by your reference to the relative "importance" of opponents.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In one game. Other games act differently. In Daggerheart, the word "defeated" is always used, with one exception that I can find: a sample of play where skeleton minions were destroyed.

Why not just use a different word than destroyed or killed? It's not like gamers have never reworded or rewritten rules before.

I suggested "defeated" before, but apparently that isn't precise enough.

 

[FrogReaver]

What’s the rule for knocking a creature unconscious at zero hp?

 

[James Gasik]

What’s the rule for knocking a creature unconscious at zero hp?

From the Rules Compendium:

Checking the RC, I noticed the Minion rules say nothing about being defeated, destroyed or killed, just the following:

 

[loverdrive]

Is there an inherent value in creating one-to-one (or even approximation thereof) relation between the rules and the fiction?

All design is compromises, sometimes you have to have a specific rule that doesn't make in-universe sense on its own but is a part of a larger model congruent with the theming.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is there an inherent value in creating one-to-one (or even approximation thereof) relation between the rules and the fiction?

All design is compromises, sometimes you have to have a specific rule that doesn't make in-universe sense on its own but is a part of a larger model congruent with the theming.

That's always going to be a subjective question. I certainly see a great deal of value in it, to the point where striving for such is a major source of enjoyment for me in the hobby. Others obviously feel differently.