D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[kayakingpoodle]

Really? Supporting an opinion with facts is now trying to force an opinion on someone? Seriously?

Earlier in the thread someone claimed that DnD was its most popular when it was marketed to 20+ year olds. That’s an opinion. Now the facts are that this is not true. This is shown to be not true by a number of things - marketing at the time, sale numbers of DnD products and various other things.

Are you now saying that by fact checking someone’s claims that we are forcing our opinions on them?

Nice take on my explanation.

To boil it down, using facts to bully someone's opinion just isn't cool. Not everyone that voices an opinion is looking for a debate. Opinions are not right or wrong, they just exist.

 

[James Gasik]

Nice take on my explanation.

To boil it down, using facts to bully someone's opinion just isn't cool. Not everyone that voices an opinion is looking for a debate. Opinions are not right or wrong, they just exist.

But there are opinions that are factually wrong. If someone is running around telling people that the United States won the War of 1812 (which I was actually taught in school growing up!) and that Canadians never set the White House on fire, shouldn't someone at least try to stop the misinformation from being spread around?

 

[Scott Christian]

But there are opinions that are factually wrong. If someone is running around telling people that the United States won the War of 1812 (which I was actually taught in school growing up!) and that Canadians never set the White House on fire, shouldn't someone at least try to stop the misinformation from being spread around?

Just been reading this, but I feel I should say something.

What you stated is not an opinion. An opinion is: "A view or judgement based on something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." It is easy enough. An opinion is an opinion.

4e was the best! That is an opinion. 5e is great! That is an opinion. Ketchup is made of oranges and limes. Not. An. Opinion.

You seem to be confusing the fact that there are opinions supported by life experiences, which are not necessarily facts.

 

[Xenolith234]

But there are opinions that are factually wrong. If someone is running around telling people that the United States won the War of 1812 (which I was actually taught in school growing up!) and that Canadians never set the White House on fire, shouldn't someone at least try to stop the misinformation from being spread around?

That’s not really quite an opinion then. It’s presented as fact.

 

[ezo]

Given the facts that you presented to support your opinion which started this whole little merry go round about opinions, I do truly believe that you believe that.

Huh? When? Where?? What???

Quote me. Because I don't see it.

Why bother with facts when you can just state that something is "just my opinion" and make it completely immune to any challenge? After all, if all opinions, supported by facts or not, are always equally valid, then, well, it makes it so much easier to pitch certain things as facts.

You can have an opinion based on facts, but then it isn't really an opinion is it... you are just expressing facts. At best your opinion is the facts you present are actually factual. Others can choose to not believe your facts, and even have facts of their own to refute your facts, and support their opinion.

You can have opinion based on experiences or feelings, but these at best are preferences, not facts.

Finally, two people can have different opinions and one person might want to "discuss it" because they believe their opinions (or their facts) are the correct ones, while the other has no interest whatsoever in doing so. Does this shut down discussion? You bet it does!

 

[Kromanjon]

Wow. This discussion has really gone the extra mile. We're discussing opinions now?

Let me rewind the tape to an earlier discussion where people really tried hard to shout me down with "facts". My opinion is that descending AC is neither better, nor worse, than ascending AC, only different (and not by much either). There are no facts you can bring to the table that dispute this. It's all opinion.

 

[ezo]

There are no facts you can bring to the table that dispute this.

Wait for it... they will bring the "but facts show addition is easier for people than subtraction", and so on.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That’s not really quite an opinion then. It’s presented as fact.

Yeah, misinformation and lies are not the same as opinions.

 

[Bae'zel]

Wow. This discussion has really gone the extra mile. We're discussing opinions now?

Let me rewind the tape to an earlier discussion where people really tried hard to shout me down with "facts". My opinion is that descending AC is neither better, nor worse, than ascending AC, only different (and not by much either). There are no facts you can bring to the table that dispute this. It's all opinion.

This again?

Personal tastes and preferences aside, it's certainly not "all opinion" when it comes to human cognition. Not everyone "maths" as easily as others, and addition is easier for a lot of people than subtraction. Also, consistency within a system is just a better user experience.

 

[Kromanjon]

This again?

Personal tastes and preferences aside, it's certainly not "all opinion" when it comes to human cognition. Not everyone "maths" as easily as others, and addition is easier for a lot of people than subtraction. Also, consistency within a system is just a better user experience.

But "better" is also opinion. For some the math might just be what they like, making more difficult math into a better system. I'm sure there are guys out there who play and when one of them fires an arrow from a tower they use the pythagorean theorem to figure out if he gets a -2 or -4 to that shot. They might get a lot of fun out of that.

I once sat for up to an hour trying to figure out how to calculate the terminal velocity on a terraformed Mars. Didn't really figure it out but I had a good time.

"Better" or "worse" are opinions, at least when it comes to games. If easier rules where always better D&D 5e would not even be close to the best game.