Rant: Why must thing always be obvious in D&D?

[Li Shenron]

Why must thing always be obvious in D&D? Why can't some players think at least slightly out of the box?

Example:

- player runs a character follower of Shar (FR evil major deity)
- character wants to find a temple of Shar, to get help and equipment
- DM informs that there are very few (and pretty secret) temples because Shar is not exactly popular (she's a sort of entropic deity that wants to revert the universe to the original nothingness... how many sane people would worship a goddess like that?)
- player demands that since Shar is a "major" deity (strongest) there must be lots of temples

Do you manage easily to sometimes at least break (a little bit) assumptions like that?

 

[the Jester]

- player runs a character follower of Shar (FR evil major deity)
- character wants to find a temple of Shar, to get help and equipment
- DM informs that there are very few (and pretty secret) temples because Shar is not exactly popular (she's a sort of entropic deity that wants to revert the universe to the original nothingness... how many sane people would worship a goddess like that?)
- player demands that since Shar is a "major" deity (strongest) there must be lots of temples

I tell 'em, "Well, ask around," and then when the authorities arrest them and throw them in jail to rot awaiting their execution, I let them make a new character.

 

[Dyne]

I enjoy killing off characters like that. If they don't have the wit to survive, then they... don't.

 

[hexgrid]

Why must thing always be obvious in D&D? Why can't some players think at least slightly out of the box?

Example:

- player runs a character follower of Shar (FR evil major deity)
- character wants to find a temple of Shar, to get help and equipment
- DM informs that there are very few (and pretty secret) temples because Shar is not exactly popular (she's a sort of entropic deity that wants to revert the universe to the original nothingness... how many sane people would worship a goddess like that?)
- player demands that since Shar is a "major" deity (strongest) there must be lots of temples

Do you manage easily to sometimes at least break (a little bit) assumptions like that?

It doesn't seem like the player is being unreasonable to me. If the temples are so secret that even Shar's followers aren't allowed to know about them, how can the religion exist at all? If I had a PC that was the member of an organization, I'd probably expect that organization to be relevant to the campaign.

 

[Mallus]

- DM informs that there are very few (and pretty secret) temples because Shar is not exactly popular...

Isn't it reasonable to assume a priest of that religion would know how to find one their own temples? They'd know what hidden signs to look for, the secret handshakes, the little all-seeing eyes painted on the side of the fish-seller's cart?

I'm all for challenging players to think outside of the box, but this just seems needlessly irritating to me. It also has the (probably) unintended effect of 'distancing' the player from their own character and the setting. The priest can't even find his own temple. That's not exactly high drama, more like a Beckett play.

Wouldn't it be a better to handwave finding the temple (reinforcing the players connection to the character concept they want to play), and then present them with something exciting/challenging to do once they got there?

 

[Ambrus]

Hm. I'd say your player is thinking out of the box. It seems fairly self-evident to me that worship of an evil goddess of entropy, darkness and subterfuge would be commonly outlawed by most governing bodies and that most of the few temples dedicated to her would be secretive underground affairs. If that's the common sense interpretation, then assuming that Shar has a great many temples operating out in the open is unusual or "thinking outside the box".

 

[maddman75]

Stop running huge published campaign settings where the players know more 'lore' than you do. Also use their assumptions about what 'orcs', 'trolls', 'centaurs', and other creatures to make them scream and bleed.

"A band of centaur approaches cautiously, weapons at the ready."
"Hey don't worry guys, the Monster Manual says they are chaotic good and love elves and I'm an elf. What do you mean they're charging? Charging at what? What did I do - OW MY HIT POINTS!"

 

[JRR_Talking]

how did he get his powers in the first place?

if his original temple is no more, fair enough he may not be clear on where the next one is. maybe he has somekind of cryptic clue?

if his original temple exists can he not get back to that?

John

Does seem to be a rather odd major deity?

 

[Emirikol]

I would make it clear that Shar is kind of like the dark side of the force and the dark emporer and his ONE follower. There may be some wannabe's (like the PC in question), but there just aren't churches and crap.

No big deal. The player made a bad choice in selection, probalby for the domain spells (i.e. POWER).

I see lots of novice (and some not-so-novice) players do that.

I have a character in Living Greyhawk that worships Tsolandril and is apocalyptic, but you don't see him running around whining about why he can't find temples of a practically non-existant god

jh

..

 

[tzor]

Huh? Why is the player's thinking unreasonable?

- Shar is a major deity ... that means he's got major powers ... or at least bragging rights.
- People like to associate with the powerful.
- Some wackos might even believe in the goals of the powerful.
- People tend to associate together ... even if in secret.

Given that there is probably something that you might vaguely call a "temple" hidden somewhere in a major city; perhaps a "shrine" in a minor city or major town. Given the general goal of nothingness the "temple" might just be an underground basement in an old adandoned and empty lot in the seediest part of the city where three people meet on aternate new moons.