Rant: Why must thing always be obvious in D&D?

[Numion]

To kill everyone in the evil temple to the evil god that wants to destroy the world? After all, it's not hidden or secret in any way...

PS

There are ways to keep something secret from your enemies, while accessible to those "in the know". It might take a little work, but should be doable. RL is full of such examples.

If somebody creates a resistance fighter for a WW2 game, it would pretty much suck if he couldn't find the resistance movement. Of course, if he was in the wrong country or somesuch (or he was looking for the French resistance, bwahahaa), it wouldn't be possible to join up. That would beg the question why was he allowed to make a resistance fighter in the first place?

Shar cults are pretty much a realmswide bad guy / gal club. They would've never been to rise as a cult network if they were pretty much impossible to join. For ex. each cleric has to join a festivity to Shar once in a tenday. Surely that could also act as a recruitment drive when suitably disguised?

 

[gizmo33]

I think the main point here is that the DM allowed a PC to play a member of secretive and evil cult. To then insist that the PC have to connections to that cult is baffling. Especially since there are more interesting adventure hooks to be had once the PC is more intimately involved with the cultists.

Yes, "allowed a PCs to play a member of a secretive and evil cult". So? The OP didn't say that they kept the PC from being a member of that cult. In fact, the OP didn't say much of anything except that the DM said "temples are rare", and the player said "no they shouldn't be".

What's also baffling is what exactly the character's background is. It's strange that the PC could have become a cult member without having ever met anyone else from that cult. Then again, the OP doesn't say that, AFAICT. All I can tell from the OP was that the player was questioning the DMs general statements regarding the faith of Shar - not that they were forbidden from finding or joining a cult.

You're assuming that the only interesting adventure hooks are to be had once things happen that you want to happen. Presumably the DM thinks otherwise, and I find no logical reason why, in principle, a character who makes a lone member of a secretive cult that's all by himself can't undertake interesting adventures. In any case IMO it's not up to the player - if his character starts off in nothing but a loincloth and chained to the oar of a slave galley - deal. If your character starts off as the lone surivivor of an orc raid on his village - deal. It's the DMs business to run his world, and AFAIK there is no contract of player guarrantees. It's simple enough to tell the DM if you'd prefer another kind of game, and work things out. But acting like you're entitled to things in the game that the DM is running is IMO not a good way to approach this.

In any case I only see this sort of sense of entitlement on the internet among strangers. No one (so far) has shown up to my game and actually acted like this while looking folks in the eye. IME people in real life is inherently more cooperative than on the internet or while driving.

Yes, you took my comparison of like things and substituted unlike things. And?

And that's exactly my point. Taking a secretive neutral evil cult and making a statement about how players expect to be able to shop at the "temple of their god" is making an implicit comparison between things that are not alike.

 

[Faraer]

The thread is a lot of speculation about a very vague situation. We don't even know if this character is a member of Shar's organization, or if he just has a personal affinity to her.

Going back to Li's original post, 'player demands that since Shar is a "major" deity (strongest) there must be lots of temples', if 'major' refers to the classification in Faiths and Pantheons, it has nothing to do with the god's power or presence in Faerûn, just how useful the authors thought DMs and players would find a longer write-up of the god. That writeup, if the player read it, indeed points out the church's secretive cell organization and small size.

 

[Mallus]

Did this really not occur to you as a possible interpretation?

Absolutely not.

Once the DM agreed to the character's conceit, ie, secretive cultist, finding one of their temples should have been about as difficult as a fighter finding a sword shop, or a ninja finding a fine purveyor of little black masks.

 

[Elf Witch]

Absolutely not.

Once the DM agreed to the character's conceit, ie, secretive cultist, finding one of their temples should have been about as difficult as a fighter finding a sword shop, or a ninja finding a fine purveyor of little black masks.

I don't get this at all. As a player if I played a character of a secret cult I would not expect it to have a temple every place I went and I would never see it as the same as buying a sword for a fighter.

In your games can characters walk into any town and buy magic items?

Some things should be rare in a game.

 

[Storminator]

Absolutely not.

Once the DM agreed to the character's conceit, ie, secretive cultist, finding one of their temples should have been about as difficult as a fighter finding a sword shop, or a ninja finding a fine purveyor of little black masks.

I find that a little strange myself.

Once the player has agreed to be part of a secretive cult, should they have to practice secrecy? Shouldn't they have to RP that out at least once before you handwave away all the secrecy? Even once? If not, why be part of a secret cult?

I'm probably going to step back here, as it seems we aren't having much of a constructive discussion. Best to you Mallus.

PS

 

[Elf Witch]

I wonder if what is going on here is what I like to call the silver platter syndrome. That is where players feel that since they are players and their PCs are the most important thing in the world everything they think they deserve should be handed to them on silver platter no work involved in at all.

If a player wants easy access to a temple to get things like healing potions and other goodies they should choose a common god who is either good or neutrul. Choosing an evil secret god should not be a walk in the park. First of all if it is a secret clanish god then it should require the PC to have knowledge on finding the clues that lead to the church.

Second in my games evil churches just don't hand over things you have to show that you have earned it. They are evil after all and less inclined to help unless you give them a reason to do so.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I expect experienced players to use their experience to their advantage. Pretending not to know things is really a futile exercise in some kind of double-think.

Waay old school. Very gamist.

 

[Numion]

If a player wants easy access to a temple to get things like healing potions and other goodies they should choose a common god who is either good or neutrul.

That's that silver platter thinking I support in no way, shape or form. PCs in my games get zip without suffering for it. Even potions of healing.

 

[Elf Witch]

That's that silver platter thinking I support in no way, shape or form. PCs in my games get zip without suffering for it. Even potions of healing.

LOL

In my game depending on the god and his focus a follower can walk into a temple and if they have enough to go around they should be able to pick up cure lights fairly easily.

I have a goddess of healing and it is fairly easy for good aligned people who are not followers to be granted the boon of purchasing or in some cases if the need is great being given healing potions.

I am kind of funny with dieties in my game for example if you are a priest of a good god and your fellow party member is evil the god will not grant healing power to the priest to heal the evil member.

And as for raising dead if the person is not a follower of the god being asked then the god is going to ask the preist for some kind of special favor for granting a non follower that boon.

Of course there are always exceptions like the evil party member is helping stop a greater evil and is needed or the dead PC may not be a follower of this god but is a follower of another god who is an ally of the priest's god.