Rapid Shot analysis by Sean Reynolds

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't see this. Discounting the various "I'm better with this weapon" feats which are applicable to all kinds of fighting, there are three good archery feat (four if your DM is smoking crack):

Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, (Manyshot).

Far shot is helpful too but mostly for prestige class access. The rest of the archery feats are marginal at best. The archery line doesn't have "lots of decent feats." It has a very small number of easily accessable powerful feats.

The swashbuckler (not a really well supported concept by the unmodified, unmulticlassed fighter) has:
Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Quickdraw, Ambidexterity ("I'm not left handed"). If you include non-core rules, then Dash and a couple of other Song and Silence feats are appropriate.

Conan has:
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Improved Sunder, Power Lunge, Extra Rage, etc.

Gawaine has:
Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Power Attack, Cleave

Galahad has:
Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Might, Extra Smiting, Sunder, Improved Sunder, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge, etc.

Drizzt has:
Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack. (And Off Hand Parry and a few other dodgy feats).

Pretty much all of the various fighting styles seem to have more integral and more useful feats than archery. A slimmed down archery character wouldn't need more than point blank, precise, and rapid shot. A slimmed down swashbuckler would need to make hard choices between weapon finesse, expertise, dodge, mobility, spring attack, and improved disarm--all of which seem pretty important for the swashbuckling style (and more significantly, all of which add something signficant to the character's capabilities).

Except that the archery line has lots of decent feats, while most other melee based feat chains have fewer feats. If you want to be a master archer, then you're set for a while. On the other hand, a swashbuckler will run out of good feats to select faster, as will the 2 hander hack them to bits fighter. Melee characters have more options for feats, but most characters are only going to be interested in a few.

Also, melee feats can require decent DEX, STR, and INT scores. Many characters won't qualify for them. On the other hand, an archer will almost certainly qualify for all worthwhile archery feats.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Hear hear. Heck, when I play LG, I usually cast Cat's Grace on our front line fighter rather than on the archers. And archers are the last targets for my haste spells. (It's usually a me-then the front line fighter-then a backup fighter like the cleric-then a spellcaster in order of preference although the front line fighter often gets it before my character does). It's not as if archers have trouble hitting without it. (Of course, if we didn't have a cleric to do it, I'd cast GMW on their arrows--that's just smart tactics).

This is exactly why, in our games, virtually all of the buffing magic tends to go toward those who are in immediate danger from the enemy. The Cat's Grace and Greater Magic Weapon for the archer would not supercede Endurance and Magic Vestment for those on the front lines.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

This is exactly why, in our games, virtually all of the buffing magic tends to go toward those who are in immediate danger from the enemy. The Cat's Grace and Greater Magic Weapon for the archer would not supercede Endurance and Magic Vestment for those on the front lines.

Right on.

Intelligent spellcasters recognize that they are relatively safe as long as their meatshields stay healthy. That means Haste (extra attacks AND +4 AC) and Endurance and/or Bull's Strength on the frontline is high priority.

I can think of lots better uses of my 3rd and 4th level slots than buffing up the archer. Maybe if he gives me a few Pearls of Power I might be persuaded...

 

[Al'Kelhar]

While we are griping about archers:

The REAL REAL problem I have with archery is this - That GMW affects FIFTY arrows.

I don't mind arrows and bows stacking attack bonus and damage; If you purchase magical arrows, they cost the earth, and are single shot weapons. I mean if you are prepared to blow 100,000 gp to purchase a +5 Bow with 50 matching +5 arrows, then go ahead stack it all on.

IMO is GMW shouldn't affect 50 arrows on a single casting. ONE arrow. That would put an end to that abuse, and cause players to carefully harbour the use of their magical arrows.

And then Rapid Shot becomes far less of a problem...

I agree with green slime on this. Rapid Shot isn't the issue we're all complaining about - it's the fact that the missile weapon mechanic for d20 combat is widely perceived as granting those PCs who focus on it great combat advantages than those PCs who focus on melee combat.

IMC I have kept Rapid Shot at -2 attack penalty, simply to keep it consistent with other multiple attack class abilities, like the monk's flurry of blows or the master of chains' whirling chain. (I like rules consistency). However, I have "nerfed" GMW so that it affects only one weapon and has a duration of 10 minutes per level. Your archer with Rapid Shot can be the Vulcan minigun of the party - mowing down "mooks" like they're grass - but come up against the main battle tank (BBEG with DR), he's all but useless and your own main battles tanks (the melee fighters with GMW on their greatswords) show their worth.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[shilsen]

Right on.

Intelligent spellcasters recognize that they are relatively safe as long as their meatshields stay healthy. That means Haste (extra attacks AND +4 AC) and Endurance and/or Bull's Strength on the frontline is high priority.

I can think of lots better uses of my 3rd and 4th level slots than buffing up the archer. Maybe if he gives me a few Pearls of Power I might be persuaded...

The same should (emphasis here) be true of intelligent archers.

I'm running a Rgr/Rog/Deepwood Sniper in a RttToEE campaign, and am the primary damage-dealer in the party (partly due to the lack of a pure fighter-type). I bought a magic bow so that the cleric doesn't have to GMW it for me and can save it for the melee guy. And when we recently divided up treasure, I made sure that the spellcasters got the potions of haste (though another PC suggested I take one), since two spells a round is a lot better an investment than one extra arrow a round.

It's a matter of playing as a team. My PC can't shoot safely without someone keeping the opposition out of melee range, and the other PCs are much weaker without his archery to back them up.