D&D 5E Rarity: Winged Boots v Boots of Levitation - Huh?

[MoonSong]

I prefer to think of it as a reason not to allow universal access to all magic item recipes.
No system is perfect, and even if each item had a unique set price based on its value and power (likely as decided by one designer) there'd still be some that were unusually expensive or cheap.

But what if I really want to allow my players universal access? these rules don't work for me, and anything I could homebrew would be useless because I need something more universal and readily available for the players that shouldn't come from me.

 

[Jester David]

But what if I really want to allow my players universal access? these rules don't work for me, and anything I could homebrew would be useless because I need something more universal and readily available for the players that shouldn't come from me.

If you're giving your players free access to pick and choose magic items, to choose the optimal choices for their character, then of course they're going to pick the best ones and find the most abusive selection.
Even if the crafting rules were much more robust and balance, more options equal more power.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

But what if I really want to allow my players universal access? these rules don't work for me, and anything I could homebrew would be useless because I need something more universal and readily available for the players that shouldn't come from me.

Then you're kind of out of luck, unfortunately. But, if you don't mind my asking, I don't follow why homebrewing is useless for you. Why is it important that it "shouldn't come from you"? Are you wanting the players to do their magic item creation off-screen between sessions?

Honest question there.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Seems that a constant magical effect (even of low level) > a limited magical effect (even of higher level), magic-item-wise.

This is probably a smart choice.

 

[Falling Icicle]

But what if I really want to allow my players universal access? these rules don't work for me, and anything I could homebrew would be useless because I need something more universal and readily available for the players that shouldn't come from me.

I think it's worth pointing out that magic item values have a range. Two magic items can share the same tier but have different values. A rare item costs between 501-5,000 gp, according to p. 135 of the DMG. You could always rule that Winged Boots are worth 5,000 gp while the Boots of Levitation are worth 2,500 gp, for example.

 

[MoonSong]

If you're giving your players free access to pick and choose magic items, to choose the optimal choices for their character, then of course they're going to pick the best ones and find the most abusive selection.
Even if the crafting rules were much more robust and balance, more options equal more power.

One thing is to give players more options and more chances to have fun, and another entirely is to not care about balance at all.

Then you're kind of out of luck, unfortunately. But, if you don't mind my asking, I don't follow why homebrewing is useless for you. Why is it important that it "shouldn't come from you"? Are you wanting the players to do their magic item creation off-screen between sessions?

Honest question there.

The current rules require too much DM intervention, I don't want my players to relly on my whims -as there is zero guidance on what makes an item a certain rarity or how it relates to how useful they are-, even if I homebrew anything that is still my whims. I need to be sure that whatever I use is readily available to players and not subject to negotiation, using the items is the fun part, not the many hours of negotiation that led to them being gotten. And it being third party increases the chances it could be accepted when I'm a player.

I think it's worth pointing out that magic item values have a range. Two magic items can share the same tier but have different values. A rare item costs between 501-5,000 gp, according to p. 135 of the DMG. You could always rule that Winged Boots are worth 5,000 gp while the Boots of Levitation are worth 2,500 gp, for example.

Again, it is about whims, I cannot trust myself to be consistent like that all the time, I need something the players can do on their own, and this is just a two-item interaction, what about all other items?

 

[Aenorgreen]

The rarity levels on items is way out of line in this edition. They put Sovereign Glue as a legendary item.

 

[Jester David]

One thing is to give players more options and more chances to have fun, and another entirely is to not care about balance at all.

Options = power creep. Allowing free rein, by its very nature, also means not caring about balance.

I'm not sure there's a perfect way.
3e, for all its forumulas and math based around bonuses was flawed. Everyone has seen abuses by playing with "the rules", like the always on true strike amulet. And knowing the prices meant certain choices were just assumed, clearly better than the rest, giving rise to the Big Six items everyone took. The numbers were revised for Magic Item Compedium, but mostly to provide items players would want to take in place of the static bonus items.
4e didn't really rethink magic items and just tried to solve the problems from 3e. The levels were really a more granular version of rarity, and there was some funkiness there as well. Likely for the same reasons: lots of magic items being written by multiple people who are on deadlines and didn't communicate.

The current rules require too much DM intervention, I don't want my players to relly on my whims -as there is zero guidance on what makes an item a certain rarity or how it relates to how useful they are-, even if I homebrew anything that is still my whims. I need to be sure that whatever I use is readily available to players and not subject to negotiation, using the items is the fun part, not the many hours of negotiation that led to them being gotten. And it being third party increases the chances it could be accepted when I'm a player.

"DM intervention" is needed for planning encounters, especially with terrain. It's needed for spacing encounters and permitting rests. It touches all aspects of the game. The game does not function without a DM.

You say using the items is the fun part not the negotiation. I wouldn't disagree. But getting the item should be just as gun as using it. Crafting items is bland and not particularly fun. Not compared to adventuring to find a desired item.

 

[Uchawi]

It is up to the DM to handle any added complexity in the game, including magic items. I don't believe they put much through into magic item creation, except to copy items from the earliest editions, like 1E, then place 5Eisms on the effects. It would be nice if rarity meant something meaningful, but at that point you may want a more complex game like Pathfinder.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I think it's worth pointing out that magic item values have a range. Two magic items can share the same tier but have different values. A rare item costs between 501-5,000 gp, according to p. 135 of the DMG. You could always rule that Winged Boots are worth 5,000 gp while the Boots of Levitation are worth 2,500 gp, for example.

Except that Winged boots (on this argument) are worth max. 500 gp, and Ring of Feather Fall/Boots of levitation are worth a minimum of 501 gp (and potentially 5000). That makes no sense.

Part of the problem seems to me to be that rarity was not reconsidered consistently during the play test once it had been decided, even when the rules of the spells being emulated changed. Because Ring of Feather Fall was always "rare" (whatever "rare" meant). Winged boots once were too, but are no longer.

It may have been that the designers were suspicious because ring of feather falling could be used as a reflex (not requiring an action) and not an action: winged boots also don't require an action, but only part of your movement. They entirely subsume the effects of feather fall unless you end your turn on a pit trap or something.

It is a rough spot in the rules for sure.