Rat Bastard DM Requirements

[Wolf1066]

This. I've seen more failed attempts at true ratbastardry over the years (and this includes me looking in the mirror) than actual RBDM moments, and I think that one of the big traps is the idea that you want players returning to the table despite your ratbastardry... No, you want them returning because of it...

I've played with some real RBDMs in the past and I wish they were still running games now - because their games were fun, exciting and clever.

Two of them have also played in my games and qualified as RBPCs - much to the enjoyment of all.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Rat Bastardy as DM is all about the moment of wonder your players experience when they realize that what is happening to them is based on their own choices, and that it is both surprising and inevitable.

Work towards that ideal in your game, and you're probably an RBDM. Succeed all the time, like it's easy, and you're probably Piratecat.

-Radiating Gnome, eternal aspirant to the title.

 

[Festivus]

What does it take to be a Rat Bastard DM?

Are you one?
Not any more. In OD&D as a teen I probably was.

How many TPK's have you caused?
In 4E, I have had 4 TPKs. Irontooth, a LFR adventure, twice in D&D Encounters

How many dice have been thrown at you?
None that I can recall.

How many character sheets have you ripped up?
None. I usually draw a skull on their initiative card and hand it to the player.

How, exactly, have you caused mental anguish to your players?
I don't think I do this... not intentionally at least.

Have you ever fudged a die roll to kill a character. For example, you rolled a 3 but told everyone it was a "natural 20."
I roll in the open for attack rolls, so no.

What else?
Describing the characters death in detail?

 

[TarionzCousin]

Wow. People have radically different definitions of RBDM. My initial post would characterize RBDM's as evil, cruel, people who wanted to kill players characters.

Many posters instead say that a RBDM is someone who (paraphrasing) is manipulative and tricky to the characters but the players love him/her.

Did I get that correct?

 

[Nifft]

Wow. People have radically different definitions of RBDM. My initial post would characterize RBDM's as evil, cruel, people who wanted to kill players.

Many posters instead say that a RBDM is someone who (paraphrasing) is manipulative and tricky to the characters but the players love him/her.

Did I get that correct?

Mmm. Manipulative to the players is not entirely inaccurate, but they do love him for it, even as their characters suffer for the player's choices.

But you're quite correct in that being a "killer DM" has nothing to do with being a rat bastard DM. I'm sure most RBDMs do indeed kill PCs, but that's not their focus, any more than it is for the theoretical average DM (who is spherical and of uniform density).

If I had to describe being an RBDM in a single phrase, it would be: the relentless application of unintended consequences.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Wolf1066]

Wow. People have radically different definitions of RBDM. My initial post would characterize RBDM's as evil, cruel, people who wanted to kill players.

Many posters instead say that a RBDM is someone who (paraphrasing) is manipulative and tricky to the characters but the players love him/her.

Did I get that correct?

The latter would be my take on the idea. The RBDMs I've played with made the game a twisted nightmare that kept us on our toes - loved it.

Two of them kept me on my toes when they played in my games - you just never knew what was going on in their devious minds until they hit you with it...

Great times. If I ever get to be half the GM those guys have been, I'll be well pleased.

 

[Kafen]

Wow. People have radically different definitions of RBDM. My initial post would characterize RBDM's as evil, cruel, people who wanted to kill players.

Many posters instead say that a RBDM is someone who (paraphrasing) is manipulative and tricky to the characters but the players love him/her.

Did I get that correct?

It seems to be correct.

Although, I am a mean GM for expecting party members to talk to each other in character according to one person as of tonight. *grumbles* So, the fine line between love and hate could be something as simple as perspective. If you have a guy that wants to sit alone in the corner while being dramatic all by himself, the basic items GMs might encourage like character building and interaction could qualify as reasons to hate the GMs.

 

[Wolf1066]

Although, I am a mean GM for expecting party members to talk to each other in character according to one person as of tonight.

You don't, do you? *tsk tsk*

Next you'll be expecting them to actually play in character.

I'm the mean sod who decrees that anything said by a player is taken to be said by his/her character - which means the NPCs are likely to react to any smart-arsed comments they make.

Likewise, when one of the players - whose character was trying on lingerie - decided to talk to another character who was out in the mall, I took that to mean she walked out of the changing room to do so...

Good thing the security tags only set off a loud, attention grabbing, alarm and not dye bombs. Made for an interesting scene anyway, and the male members of the party sure enjoyed it.

 

[Lanefan]

Wow. People have radically different definitions of RBDM. My initial post would characterize RBDM's as evil, cruel, people who wanted to kill players.

Now that defines a real RBDM - doesn't stop at characters, but wants to kill players too!

Lan-"not all players deserve death..."-efan

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I don't really think of myself as one, but my players insist that I am a RBDM.

I just like to think that for every action there is a reaction.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Now that defines a real RBDM - doesn't stop at characters, but wants to kill players too!

Lan-"not all players deserve death..."-efan

Oops.

Tarionz"Do some players actually deserve death?"Cousin

You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to Lanefan again

 

[jbear]

TPKs? Ripped up character sheets? Fudged die rolls to kill characters?

A rat bastard DM craves not these things.

A rat bastard DM's strength flows from the game. Beware the Dark Side! Cheap character deaths, taking satisfaction in TPKs - the Dark Side are they...

(Quite literally, for the DM, there is no 'try'. If you want to kill characters, then characters are dead. Death is EASY for a DM to organise. Level 1 PCs leave tavern, a Great Wyrm red dragon flies overhead on its once-a-century rampage, and bingo, the PCs are dead. You win, right? Nah, big difference between a killer DM and a Rat Bastard DM. A killer DM just kills characters, which is easy, especially if you're willing to fudge die rolls to that end. A rat bastard DM merely makes the characters lives miserable, especially if s/he can orchestrate things so that it's at least in part the consequences of the PCs own decisions that make them miserable, and in doing so makes the *players* love it.)

(A Rat Bastard DM's) duty is heavy, but (PC) death is lighter than a feather...

I was going to say not. I've only TPK'd the party once. Well twice but one of those times was a fevered nightmare provoked by the BBGs malign presence (I wanted them to meet early on).

I was going to say not because last night 3 consecutive brute hits including a critical took one of my players to -17 in two seconds flat. Unfortunately the courtyard floor was, at that time, alive with huge carnivourous worms and when she fell amongst them, she received enough damage to take her one point over her bloodied value, which meant instant death.

What would a rat DM do. Sit back and smile as she packed up her pencils and hand made powercard sheets, tucked away her newly crafted and plastified battle card and walk out the door to go home? I couldn't do it.

In our game I allow a 1/Encounter do something awesome power, which can be used to alter powers in a cool, fun way or do something totally out of the box. I called for someone to creatively save her now or she was dead and buried. Would a Rat DM do that? So the the Dwarf Cleric standing next to her rewound things with her Immeadiate Interrupt "Back From Death's Door" Power and threw her Cape of the Montebank down beneath her as she fell, avoiding the mortal wound from the worms beneath and teleporting her to a safe distance ontop a nearby block of stone. Yeah, pretty soft. I know. Not very Rat.

But after reading Yoda's fine words and agreeing with the distinction between a Killer DM and a Rat, then I would say I'm not a killer DM. I'm a big softie when it comes down to it. But I have certain Rat characteristics. I like to make my players, sweat and suffer. I can't think of one of my devious plots that they haven't ended up in yet!

Last night, for example, they had canged their appearances in order to gain easy access into the Red Hand's Lair. They had to chew a bitter leaf given to them by the Goblin leader of one of the tribes unwillingly subdued by the Red Hand, touch the Crystal Ball of Death they were transporting disguised inside a wicker idol ( which is meant to be used to assessinate the Red Hand), and think of the form they wnat to change into. This was explained to them some time ago and their memeory was rusty. They forgot that it didn't alter their body size. They all thought of Ogres. Hehe... Rat moment!

So once they had turned into a group of mini ogres (no going back on that I'm afraid!) and entered into the citadel, (trying not to giggle) where the upper level was hosting a fevered ceremony by the Cult of the Fish, temporary allies of the Red Hand. When the guards asked them: 'And what the hell is this?', they answered that they'd come for the party. 'Well come on in!' The 'party' they were escorted to forthwith, was of course a voluntary mass ritual sacrifice... which is why they found themselves in a courtyard that suddenly became filled with writhing flesh devouring worms in the first place. Willing Sacrifices to the Fish!

So if taking the PCs actions and twisting them in mean and nasty ways is a rat DM characteristic, I guess I have some rat in me.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

How many TPK's have you caused?

RBDMs do not cause TPKs. RBDMs rejoice gloriously and grin wickedly as the players squirm in their chairs and glance furtively at each other begging someone else to take responsibility for the misery that they are suffering through their own actions.

A favorite line of mine at the game table, spoken in my best Eddie Murphy voice:

"You brought that sh*t on yourself!"

 

[Kafen]

You don't, do you? *tsk tsk*

Next you'll be expecting them to actually play in character.

I'm the mean sod who decrees that anything said by a player is taken to be said by his/her character - which means the NPCs are likely to react to any smart-arsed comments they make.

Likewise, when one of the players - whose character was trying on lingerie - decided to talk to another character who was out in the mall, I took that to mean she walked out of the changing room to do so...

Good thing the security tags only set off a loud, attention grabbing, alarm and not dye bombs. Made for an interesting scene anyway, and the male members of the party sure enjoyed it.

Nice... I can see where the players might have fun with the game if they are strong roleplayers.


If we rate GMs by 'nice' and 'mean' on an x axis and plot the player 'like' and 'dislike' on a y axis, it would define where the topic is going at this point.

Steal the traits from the Rate Yourself topic? Hmm...

 

[Wolf1066]

If we rate GMs by 'nice' and 'mean' on an x axis and plot the player 'like' and 'dislike' on a y axis, it would define where the topic is going at this point.

"Nice" and "mean" are very subjective.

I was playing in a Cyberpunk campaign - characters were generated by the GM and assigned to us: loyal corporate employees, raised by the corporation. Sent out of our comfort zone, someone started throwing rocks at us from the top of a building, we saw movement and we opened fire - shot and killed some children...

GM said to us: "did you stop to identify your targets? No."

Then he had us stranded in the combat zone and taken in by a group of people who lived there, no chance of getting back to our nice secure corporate area.

"Nice" or "Mean"?

Definitely RBDM. And sadly we didn't get to play much of that campaign because Real Life intruded and made it impossible for the GM to continue running the game. I was really annoyed about that, because the game showed a lot of promise.

 

[ggroy]

In one D&D game I briefly played in, several players' primary stat was drained to 3.

In the end, one of the really angry players ended up smashing a beer bottle over the DM's head.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If I had to describe being an RBDM in a single phrase, it would be: the relentless application of unintended consequences.

Good one. They have to be negative consequences though. Always negative.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Good one. They have to be negative consequences though. Always negative.

Certainly not! The occasional application of unintended positive consequences draws the players into enjoying further unintended consequences, which, of course, can then be negative.

Horror isn't about the darkness. It's about the light.

 

[Nifft]

Good one. They have to be negative consequences though. Always negative.

Not in my games -- but if that's what floats your boat, try it & report back how your players like it.

I'm angling much more for the feeling that when you push the world, it pushes back: not in a reactionary or petty way ("have to be negative"), but in a way that shows the world is a living, breathing thing, inhabited by uncountable urges and agendas.

Basically, when you poke the world, expect it to react in a more complex manner than "yes" and "no".

Cheers, -- N

 

[Wolf1066]

I'm angling much more for the feeling that when you push the world, it pushes back: not in a reactionary or petty way ("have to be negative"), but in a way that shows the world is a living, breathing thing, inhabited by uncountable urges and agendas.

Basically, when you poke the world, expect it to react in a more complex manner than "yes" and "no".

That's my take as well. I spend a lot of time on characterisation and developing the location. Whoever, whatever the PCs react with, there are going to be consequences. The potential for both positive and negative reaction is there. And the reactions will not always be predictable, but they will be believable, plausible, possible. Wins, losses, benefits, risks, dangers, opportunities.

That's half the fun of creating a place and the people that populate it. They're not just bit players in a 2-D landscape sitting on their hands waiting for the PCs to come along so they can say their lines and impart the information.