Dark Jezter
First Post
So, anyone want to start placing bets on how long until Wrath of the Swarm turns this thread into a religous debate and gets it locked down?
I'm betting... 6 more posts.
I'm betting... 6 more posts.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Rate Kill Bill Volume 2
- Thread starter Kai Lord
- Start date
Particle_Man
Explorer
I gave it an 8. I do wish I could have seen it back to back the first time through, but I like how themes got related to each other. Things like,
That was just nicely done.
Pei Mei rocked. But I guess he was some sort of variant monk,
.
Was LoTR better? Definitely. Was The Passion better? Don't know, haven't seen it and don't ever plan to. But Kill Bill was still very, very good. I share Tarantino's love for Uma Thurman now.
Budd making a crack about Dumb Blondes, ostensibly about the Bride, but really about Elle Driver. And then she kills him, as she had been planning too.
Pei Mei rocked. But I guess he was some sort of variant monk,
since he wasn't immune to all poisons
Was LoTR better? Definitely. Was The Passion better? Don't know, haven't seen it and don't ever plan to. But Kill Bill was still very, very good. I share Tarantino's love for Uma Thurman now.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Kai Lord: If you think the Bride that tearfully sends the man she loves to the death he must have is the same woman that callously cut off Sofie Fatale's arm, then, well, we disagree on that. Remember that the House of Blue Leaves is the Bride's FIRST action of revenge. Or rather, her second -- her first being to convince Hanzo to make her a sword. And remember the look in her eyes when she says, "And considering the student..." to him?
That look is long gone by the time she confronts Bill on the patio. As is her rage. You'll note that we do NOT get the "Here goes the crazy Bride" music at that point. As in fact we don't get when she FIRST goes in to kill Budd -- it's only after Budd has buried her alive that he warrants the "close-up siren craziness" treatment.
Note that she does not kill Elle Driver, when she so easily could have. She renders the woman helpless and then leaves.
Yes, she DID take satisfaction in her murderous rampage. She admits it. Crying as she does. She is not that woman anymore. THAT'S transformation. We aren't TOLD she's transformed, but the evidence that she has is striking -- and I prefer stories in which I have to make those decisions myself.
If she had said, "No, I didn't take satisfaction in those killings," she wouldn't have been transformed, she'd be LYING.
The proverb? A - consider the statement itself: "best served cold" means "after the emotion has gone, after the desire has vanished". After you have transformed, then you must carry out the revenge you so badly wanted. You don't get to go halfway and then change your mind. B - it is explicitly described as "An Old Klingon Proverb" -- that is, it's from frickin' STAR TREK. Maybe that's a hint not to take it too seriously. In support of that, note that the film actually opens with "SHAWSCOPE" and "OUR FEATURE PRESENTATION" -- more evidence that this movie is not pretending to be a representation of life.
All of which is specific to this particular movie and I don't insist that anyone else share my views on it. What I really object to is the notion that stories of murderous revenge cannot be rich in value, simply by virtue of being stories of murderous revenge. That's nonsense. There is no subject matter that cannot, in the right hands, provide rich value. That there are many stories of murderous revenge that are NOT rich in value I won't contest. That proves nothing, other than Sturgeon's Law, and the richness of value (or lack thereof, as you prefer) in Kill Bill is likewise no proof that the subject matter is incapable of richness.
That look is long gone by the time she confronts Bill on the patio. As is her rage. You'll note that we do NOT get the "Here goes the crazy Bride" music at that point. As in fact we don't get when she FIRST goes in to kill Budd -- it's only after Budd has buried her alive that he warrants the "close-up siren craziness" treatment.
Note that she does not kill Elle Driver, when she so easily could have. She renders the woman helpless and then leaves.
Yes, she DID take satisfaction in her murderous rampage. She admits it. Crying as she does. She is not that woman anymore. THAT'S transformation. We aren't TOLD she's transformed, but the evidence that she has is striking -- and I prefer stories in which I have to make those decisions myself.
If she had said, "No, I didn't take satisfaction in those killings," she wouldn't have been transformed, she'd be LYING.
The proverb? A - consider the statement itself: "best served cold" means "after the emotion has gone, after the desire has vanished". After you have transformed, then you must carry out the revenge you so badly wanted. You don't get to go halfway and then change your mind. B - it is explicitly described as "An Old Klingon Proverb" -- that is, it's from frickin' STAR TREK. Maybe that's a hint not to take it too seriously. In support of that, note that the film actually opens with "SHAWSCOPE" and "OUR FEATURE PRESENTATION" -- more evidence that this movie is not pretending to be a representation of life.
All of which is specific to this particular movie and I don't insist that anyone else share my views on it. What I really object to is the notion that stories of murderous revenge cannot be rich in value, simply by virtue of being stories of murderous revenge. That's nonsense. There is no subject matter that cannot, in the right hands, provide rich value. That there are many stories of murderous revenge that are NOT rich in value I won't contest. That proves nothing, other than Sturgeon's Law, and the richness of value (or lack thereof, as you prefer) in Kill Bill is likewise no proof that the subject matter is incapable of richness.
It's one thing to develop a personal dislike for a movie and declare that it will never be on your own list of great movies... but acting as if that assessment were somehow universal is pretentious, arrogant, and just downright ignorant.
If that wasn't bad enough, the criteria by which that judgement was made are questionable. It's rather like the fundamentalists who complain about Harry Potter and "witchcraft".
I have no intention of turning this into a religious thread - this is a "isn't there something wrong with Kai Lord's judgement" thread.
If that wasn't bad enough, the criteria by which that judgement was made are questionable. It's rather like the fundamentalists who complain about Harry Potter and "witchcraft".
I have no intention of turning this into a religious thread - this is a "isn't there something wrong with Kai Lord's judgement" thread.
kingpaul
First Post
I'm not sure, having seen both, if having both parts in one movie would have been a good idea. Volume 1 was very action packed. As one friend put it, 'Kill as many people as you can without having to change the film reel'.Particle_Man said:
Volume 2, however, was not nearly as action packed...there was a definite slow-down.
Whether a person is Christian or not isn't (or shouldn't) be relevant. Passion didn't explain any of the backstory, didn't have any context, and had massive amounts of bloody torture for no good reason. (The memetic reasons for this are clear, of course, but that would involve making this a religious thread and getting it locked, so I will not discuss them here.) As a movie, it didn't present its story well.
Wouldn't the slowing chain of death in Kill Bill have been intended to reflect a tiring of the Bride's deathlust (and induce a tiring in ourselves)?
Wouldn't the slowing chain of death in Kill Bill have been intended to reflect a tiring of the Bride's deathlust (and induce a tiring in ourselves)?
Truth Seeker
Adventurer
Well...I loved it...was stunned by outcome, me thinking more hack & slash, but it was more skill and willpower.
A 10/10...all that pain and struggle, was rewarded in the end.
A 10/10...all that pain and struggle, was rewarded in the end.
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