Spoilers Star Wars: Andor season 2

[chuckdee]

Again, she was focused, even driven, before, but she became obsessed and made mistakes she likely wouldn't have made before. (think: her interactions with Krennic) She had always been calculating, observant and measured but losing Syril she got reckless and sloppy. She believed she was the only way to stop the rebellion and she was going to exact a toll for what had been taken from her.

A living-Syril Dedra notices someone had her log in and roots them out, a post-Syril Dedra doesn't notice. Because if that they hung her out to dry, and Partagatz with her.

From that aspect, Syril's death enabled the rebellion to win. It took so many breaks for that to happen prior to a Junior Space Wizard making an otherwise nigh-impossible shot.

I can see that. Thanks for taking the time to put it into this context.

 

[Reynard]

I finally finished Andor and all I can say is that I desperately want a FULL SEASON version of Rogue One.

So good. Perfect, even. Best TV since True Detective S1 or Westworld S1.

 

[Celebrim]

Rogue One hits even harder after watching the two seasons of Andor, and I consider this a mark of good story telling in that you can increase the story without detracting from or harming the story around you. Compare with the sequels and their overtly destructive take on the characters of the original trilogy and the success that they achieved and even the very idea that they were heroic.

 

[Reynard]

and even the very idea that they were heroic.

When did this ever happen?

 

[Celebrim]

When did this ever happen?

Each of the three sequel movies were philosophically different and even at times internally inconsistent owing to the complete lack of planning or coherence in the writing team, but one of the themes developed by 'The Last Jedi' specifically and by the ending of 'Rise of Skywalker' was that heroes were ultimately irrelevant and a sort of falsehood or cop out and it was the masses of people that mattered. This can be seen in Luke's rejection of his hero status throughout the movie and his subverted heroics at the end of the movie, the fact that none of the actions by any of the characters attempting to be heroes had any meaning or positive influence on the outcome of the movie, Rose's bizarre speech about how you win as she stops Finn from trying to be heroic, as well as the symbolic scene of the untrained kid using the force to lift the broom.

 

[Reynard]

Each of the three sequel movies were philosophically different and even at times internally inconsistent owing to the complete lack of planning or coherence in the writing team, but one of the themes developed by 'The Last Jedi' specifically and by the ending of 'Rise of Skywalker' was that heroes were ultimately irrelevant and end a sort of falsehood or cop out and it was the masses of people that mattered. This can be seen in Luke's rejection of his hero status throughout the movie and his subverted heroics at the end of the movie, the fact that none of the actions by any of the characters attempting to be heroes had any meaning or positive influence on the outcome of the movie, Rose's bizarre speech about how you win as she stops Finn from trying to be heroic, as well as the symbolic scene of the untrained kid using the force to lift the broom.

That is an interesting interpretation. I don't share it, at least insofar as it suggesting that the characters were never actually heroic. But individual heroes can only do so much. Rebellions are built on Hope, after all, and powered by the masses. Ando speaks very much the same message.

 

[Celebrim]

That is an interesting interpretation. I don't share it, at least insofar as it suggesting that the characters were never actually heroic. But individual heroes can only do so much. Rebellions are built on Hope, after all, and powered by the masses. Ando speaks very much the same message.

It does and I don't think that is coincidental, but my point is that it manages to speak on the same theme without undermining in anyway what happens in the original trilogy but rather being a complement to it. Whereas the sequels reboot the setting and characters to the state that they were in at the beginning of "A New Hope" and then proceed to further attack those characters to tear them down, while being explicitly uncomfortable with the original trilogy's themes.

 

[Stalker0]

But individual heroes can only do so much. Rebellions are built on Hope, after all, and powered by the masses. Ando speaks very much the same message.

I think Ando had the opportunity to deliver that message but never quite got there. It was much more focused on these early heroes of the rebellion.

If we had had one scene towards the end where some imperial higher ups note a large series of sabotages across the galaxy, much more than can be accounted for by axis or their immediate group. Noting the fear that rebellion has truly spread across the galaxy…and we need the new super weapon (aka Death Star) to crush it.

Then we would have that message, but they just didn’t quite get there

 

[MarkB]

I think Ando had the opportunity to deliver that message but never quite got there. It was much more focused on these early heroes of the rebellion.

If we had had one scene towards the end where some imperial higher ups note a large series of sabotages across the galaxy, much more than can be accounted for by axis or their immediate group. Noting the fear that rebellion has truly spread across the galaxy…and we need the new super weapon (aka Death Star) to crush it.

Then we would have that message, but they just didn’t quite get there

I thought Partagaz listening to Nemik's manifesto and noting that it had spread unstoppably across the galaxy conveyed that message.