Rate Kill Bill Volume 2

[Kai Lord]

Rate Kill Bill Volume 2 on a scale of 1-10.

 

[Kai Lord]

I gave it a 7. Points off for a couple of scenes (the daughter explaining how she killed her goldfish, Bud's boss reprimanding him) and for nature of the story.

No matter how expertly polished a tale of murderous revenge can ever be, its still a tale of murderous revenge, and will never possess the rich value of a story like The Lord of the Rings or The Passion of the Christ.

That said, as a visceral epic of chop socky mayhem, it was one hell of a ride, and a couple of the chapters (Pai Mei and the showdown with Elle Driver) really transcended the genre.

 

[barsoomcore]

I gave it a 9 -- the only issue being the slight loss of story during the Bride's reunion with her daughter. I thought the goldfish scene beautifully paid off with Bill's confession to the four-year-old, just as Budd's scene in the bar paid off with his simple-minded scheme to get money out of Elle.

What a great character in Budd. It was actually touching to realise he HADN'T sold the sword, that he had let everyone think he had, think that he was such a moron he'd actually do that, and why? Just so they'd leave him alone and not involve him in their schemes any more? Because of what had happened with the Bride? A delicious character.

I'll contest the notion that stories of muderous revenge are incapable of possessing rich value. I mean, Hamlet and King Lear are basically stories of muderous revenge. Not to say that Kill Bill is Hamlet, but I don't think it's safe to rank stories according to their subject matter.

Stories of muderous revenge that simple-mindedly ask us to cheer as the hero exacts their revenge, and pretend that if you kill enough people you can be free of all consequences and yay only the bad people die (except for that friend of the good guy who has to die so that we can see how bad those bad guys are) and yeah, that felt good. Those stories are limited in how powerful they can be because even while we're cheering we know, deep down inside, that killing people is bad. It's unpleasant, and if you find killing people easy, then maybe you're not so okay, on the inside.

Kill Bill I don't think asks us to accept that view. I think it constantly challenges the idea that the Bride is simply the good guy and everybody else deserves to die. It constantly gives you reasons to sympathize with the bad guys, and the baddest of them all, Bill himself, turns out to be an admirable, compassionate man. Why does the Bride kill him? Why can't these two rational-seeming people simply come to terms and decide on a path that lets them both live?

Well, partially, I think, because at its heart, Kill Bill isn't about murderous revenge at all. It's about relationships, and the terrible things people do to the ones they love. The terrible things love makes people do.

The Bride isn't happy to kill her mentor, the father of her child. She's in tears. That's as far from the usual ending to a murderous revenge tale as you can get. We aren't watching vengeance being done. We're watching a woman put an end to those influences in her life that drag her into evil -- and the final one is the one that understands her so well, that treats her better than anyone else ever treated her, that respects her and admires her and makes her feel powerful.

She met God. And God was cut.

If it was just vengeance, she wouldn't be redeemed. She'd just be as bad as everyone else. Only tougher. And I don't think the Bride is just tougher than everyone else. Why DID Pai Mei teach her the Five-Point-Palm Exploding Heart Technique? What did she have that no one else did?

Hm. I didn't know I liked it that much. Interesting.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

No matter how expertly polished a tale of murderous revenge can ever be, its still a tale of murderous revenge, and will never possess the rich value of a story like The Lord of the Rings or The Passion of the Christ.

The Passion of the Christ possess a quality story? I was under the impression there was no context, no backstory, and hideous amounts of gory violence for no readily observable reason.

Methinks someone is letting their RL ideas cloud their critical eye.

 

[Endur]

You are the one who is letting RL ideas cloud your eye. I have not gone to church in five years and have only gone once in the last ten years, and I immediately recognized how incredible a movie The Passion is (I knew it would be good, but I had no idea just how good it really is).

The Passion of the Christ possess a quality story? I was under the impression there was no context, no backstory, and hideous amounts of gory violence for no readily observable reason.

Methinks someone is letting their RL ideas cloud their critical eye.

 

[Kai Lord]

Stories of muderous revenge that simple-mindedly ask us to cheer as the hero exacts their revenge, and pretend that if you kill enough people you can be free of all consequences and yay only the bad people die (except for that friend of the good guy who has to die so that we can see how bad those bad guys are) and yeah, that felt good. Those stories are limited in how powerful they can be because even while we're cheering we know, deep down inside, that killing people is bad. It's unpleasant, and if you find killing people easy, then maybe you're not so okay, on the inside.

And for me, this is all Kill Bill really is. The clever Tarantino soliloquies, the reverent homages to various genres, the great performances don't elevate the story itself above that of a pissed off woman murdering and maiming everyone who wronged her so horribly. Its I Spit On Your Grave for a wide audience. The second volume isn't quite so foul as the first, but I don't find anything redeeming to take from the film when you get up and leave the theater. Its fun to talk about how funny this scene was or how intense and exciting that scene was, but I take those segments individually.

At the end of the day its just one murderer who murders a bunch of other murderers because they tried to murder her. She doesn't grow or evolve and certainly isn't "redeemed" at any point in the story. In fact she degenerates from the bride who wanted to put all that behind her in the wedding chapel back down to the vengeful murderer she no longer wanted to be in the first place. And she's rewarded for it with a care free drive off into the sunset.

Vivica A. Fox told her point blank that she was a different person when she helped kill her wedding party, and now had a separate life and an innocent daughter, but Beatrix didn't care. She said "I'm still rational, I'm just without mercy, compassion, or forgiveness," and murdered Fox in her own home in front of her young daughter.

Gogo and the Crazy 88's didn't wrong Beatrix in any way whatsoever but she slaughtered them because they tried to protect their leader. Just because they were all "bad" doesn't give her the right to murder. We're obviously meant to see good in Beatrix due to her plea with Gogo to walk away so she wouldn't be killed and her allowance of the young Yakuza to run home to his mommy.

But that was a tiny part of her consciousness she rarely indulged, and ultimately forsook. Why didn't she walk away from Gogo? Come at O-Ren another time, another way? Why not charge O-Ren when she heard the motorcycles of the Crazy 88's approaching? Because she was pissed, was going to savor every kill, and she enjoyed it! She even said as much when under Bill's truth serum. She took great satisfaction in her revenge, and wasn't the least bit remorseful, even at the end.

The only way Beatrix solved problems was by killing them. Bill assessed her character perfectly, she was a killer "in disguise" as a regular woman pretending to want a normal life. The scene with the truth serum was the one moment where the film could have revealed a change in character, or a shred of guilt or remorse, or anything at all about her other than the vengeful, murderous traits we knew she indulged in.

Imagine Bill's reaction if she said "no" or "not anymore" when he asked her if she took satisfaction in her murderous rampage? What an amazing revelation that would have been for him. To learn that while she had a talent for killing, she didn't love it, and it wasn't the core of her being, and that he in fact had been robbing her all those years of her true identity. It just could have been something more, but in the end, Bill was right, she was a killer, took great satisfaction in killing, and only needed an excuse to kill. Bill's horrible crime was her excuse.

I really don't think the film was about relationships at all. It was all about revenge, from the opening Klingon proverb, to Sonny Chiba's philosophical contemplations ("Revenge is not a straight line, its a forest") to the undefined future (when Viviva Fox's daughter comes hunting for Uma.)

Its too bad there just wasn't anything to elevate the film above it.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I gave it an 8, what made this movie was dialog and characters, wonderful character interaction. I thought some of the editting was choppy and did not roll smoothly.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Is there a reason she should have demonstrated mercy, compassion, or forgiveness?

Would it really have been any better if she had been revealed to not be a "bad" person, but a "good" person unable to leave the path she was on and seek redemption? Ah yes, redemption, that state that all those who lose their honor (in the East) or sin (in the West) struggle so valiantly to find.

Your critique of the movie as lacking any valuable messages is both accurate and utterly irrelevant. It's like criticizing Casablanca for focusing too much on the love triangle.

The Bride likes killing. She enjoys it. And we enjoy watching her do it.

 

[Kai Lord]

Your critique of the movie as lacking any valuable messages is both accurate and utterly irrelevant..

What an utterly foolish thing to say. My critique that KB offers nothing of any significant value is irrelevant in determining how I personally rate the film? Get a clue.

The Bride likes killing. She enjoys it. And we enjoy watching her do it.

Which means it will never compare to the greatest films ever made.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

What an utterly foolish thing to say. My critique that KB offers nothing of any significant value is irrelevant in determining how I personally rate the film? Get a clue.

And your moral prejudices, which were at the very least derived from a society heavily influenced by Christian thinking, are irrelevant in determining how you personally rate the film?