Rate the Neverwinter Campaign Guide

[GreyLord]

It would be grossly inappropriate for me to vote, so I shall refrain.

What I will say is that we wrote the book to have a lot of story flavor and plot hooks. In fact, it may well be the most flavor-intensive book I've personally worked on for 4E. The new mechanics represent a pretty small portion of the book.

Whether that's to your taste or not--either in general, or with this book in particular--I wouldn't dare speculate. Just putting it out there for you to make an informed decision, whichever way you decide.

And here I thought the most flavorful book with your name on it was the Blackmoor campaign setting for 4e...though I admit that did have a lot of copy and paste from products previous to it.

I liked Blackmoor more overall as well...but that's more personal opinion.

Nice job on NWCS, there are many things in it that I like and enjoy.

 

[Zaran]

I loved the theme Pack Outcast so I tried to give my Druid (Sentinel) the theme when I realized the theme had a racial requirement that my elven druid didn't fulfil.

Most of the themes shown in the book have simular requirements that I think makes them too narrow focused. The Pack Outcast which was supposed to give the ability to be a werewolf lite character but would have ALSO worked as a way to give Sentinels the limited ability to shapechange like their Druid (Druid) compatriots, but because there is a racial restriction one would have to be Human or Shifter.

I much rather the info given in these books be as general as possible so that we can use it in other ways or settings.

 

[Dead Scribe]

I like the specificity of Themes. I much prefer them to be a way to tie characters into the gameworld, rather than yet another layer of mechanics to optimize. So in the context of the setting it makes sense to restrict it to humans and shifters.

That said, it seems obvious to me that the Pack Outcast and Dead Rat Deserter in particular are intended to be easily houseruled to work for any race in any setting.

 

[KarinsDad]

I dislike the shape changing aspect of the themes. It's just more bloated super powers to give to PCs.

Shape changing used to be a powerful spell, even the Alter Self version. Now, it's handed out as background candy.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yes, I admit the shapechanging themes bother me a bit, especially as they are at-wills. Being able to change into another form is potentially powerful, and the 4E rules really really do not discuss how to handle a character in an altered form, except in narrow combat usage.

As far as I can recall, there are no rules for NPCs being able to identify a character in a changed form.

 

[Kzach]

I dislike the shape changing aspect of the themes. It's just more bloated super powers to give to PCs.

Shape changing used to be a powerful spell, even the Alter Self version. Now, it's handed out as background candy.

I think you have to put into perspective what the end result of that shapechanging is though. In previous editions it gave you awesome powers. Turning into a dragon, for instance. In this instance, you get... a climb speed... yay. Useful, but hardly game-breaking. The wolf one gives you a +1 to speed and a minor action shift. Again, nice but hardly game-breaking and both well within the power levels of other themes.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think you have to put into perspective what the end result of that shapechanging is though. In previous editions it gave you awesome powers. Turning into a dragon, for instance. In this instance, you get... a climb speed... yay. Useful, but hardly game-breaking. The wolf one gives you a +1 to speed and a minor action shift. Again, nice but hardly game-breaking and both well within the power levels of other themes.

The ability to hang out in the King's dungeon as a rat, to scamper through tiny holes, and to spy on the prisoner without anyone being any wiser isn't powerful?

At Will?

To go from one side of a building to the other by walking in a drain spout so that you cannot be seen from below isn't nice?

To run away from some foes, turn a corner into an alleyway and go into a hole in the wall isn't useful?

To purposely set up your inn room with holes so that you can escape if necessary isn't helpful?

I can think of dozens of non-combat uses and ways to escape combat with this At Will ability.

 

[Kzach]

I can think of dozens of non-combat uses and ways to escape combat with this At Will ability.

And I, as the DM, can think of dozens of ways to neutralise that and not allow it to be an overpowered benefit that circumvents the rules.

Then again, are any of those things so bad or broken that you would disallow them? Seems like a lot of fun could be had with all those examples.

 

[KarinsDad]

And I, as the DM, can think of dozens of ways to neutralise that and not allow it to be an overpowered benefit that circumvents the rules.

How exactly do my examples circumvent any rules? Either the PC shapechanges into a rat, or he doesn't.

Then again, are any of those things so bad or broken that you would disallow them? Seems like a lot of fun could be had with all those examples.

Actually, I did disallow the Dead Rat Deserter Theme in my upcoming campaign, but that was partially for other campaign reasons as well.

But part of my issue with themes is one of balance. I see a lot of imbalance in many of the themes and have a bit of an issue with handing out the equivalent of free magic spells via themes. In Champions, x-ray vision and time travel and viewing into the future or past, and other types of powers are cautioned against because they can unravel the mystery of the DM's story. I see an At Will power where a PC can change into a rat and infiltrate basically undetected into many scenarios as potentially unraveling the mysteries that I put into my game.


Levitate is a 6th level Daily power that is only slightly more powerful than Levitation. Levitation, on the other hand, is an Encounter power, so it has more utility in some ways. And Levitate has a cost (i.e. using up a 6th level Daily power slot).

I'm just not keen on handing out free magic spells to just any PC without a real cost. For example, before the Bregan D'aerthe Spy Theme came out, a non-Wizard PC had to pay two feats, an Int of 13, and using up their only multiclassing feat to acquire Levitate. Now, they can get a slightly watered down version of it for free.

To me, it's just the re-occurring bigger, badder, better aspect that WotC continues to flood the market with.

Personally, I think that Themes are a good roleplaying story hook idea, but a terrible "let's just keep giving PCs more and more abilities, and making them more and more complex" idea.

 

[Saracenus]

Off the top of my head, while you shape change into a rat or a wolf, you don't automatically act like a normal rat or wolf, thus in an out of combat spying mode I would use Insight vs. Bluff to not give oneself away (if visible).

If you want to tease the player you start an "important" conversation by the bad guys and have them get up during it, walk into another space (say to go inspect something they are talking about) and close the door behind them. Now the PC has to make a choice, do I go human to pass through the door and risk detection or do I run back with partial info?

Is the Dead Rat any more broken than a Changeling PC? I really don't think so.

Frankly, I go for the fun. I let the PCs use their abilities and sometimes I use those selfsame abilities against them. In the end its how you adjust to the new reality and make the best use of what a PC can and cannot do.

My two coppers,