Rate the Neverwinter Campaign Guide

[Dead Scribe]

The ability to hang out in the King's dungeon as a rat, to scamper through tiny holes, and to spy on the prisoner without anyone being any wiser isn't powerful?

...not particularly? They might not do it with shapeshifting, but a level 1 character of any class can do a lot of neat. I mean, eladrin can teleport on a regular basis, which is pretty handy even out of combat.

 

[KarinsDad]

Off the top of my head, while you shape change into a rat or a wolf, you don't automatically act like a normal rat or wolf, thus in an out of combat spying mode I would use Insight vs. Bluff to not give oneself away (if visible).

I think this is disingenuous as a DM. It doesn't take much to just stay put as a rat or to scurry across the floor. I wouldn't use Insight vs. Bluff unless the rat was doing something unusual. A rat in the king's palace? Yup. Someone will notice. A rat in many parts of the city or sewers? Nope. An everyday thing. Nobody would give the rat a second glance in many scenarios.

If you want to tease the player you start an "important" conversation by the bad guys and have them get up during it, walk into another space (say to go inspect something they are talking about) and close the door behind them. Now the PC has to make a choice, do I go human to pass through the door and risk detection or do I run back with partial info?

How often do you have an important conversation where you move around a lot and go into different rooms and close doors behind you. Typically, someone goes somewhere quiet, closes the door behind them, and then starts an important conversation.

Yes sometimes, the NPCs might do something unusual which makes it tough for the rat PC. But if the DM often runs the NPCs as if they have an omnipotent deity whispering in their ears in order to create challenges for the rat PC, then he's just either doesn't understand how normally intelligent beings behave, or he's being a dick. IMO.

Is the Dead Rat any more broken than a Changeling PC? I really don't think so.

Maybe not, but a player gives up a lot playing a Changeling race.

 

[Phaezen]

The ability to hang out in the King's dungeon as a rat, to scamper through tiny holes, and to spy on the prisoner without anyone being any wiser isn't powerful?

At Will?

To go from one side of a building to the other by walking in a drain spout so that you cannot be seen from below isn't nice?

To run away from some foes, turn a corner into an alleyway and go into a hole in the wall isn't useful?

To purposely set up your inn room with holes so that you can escape if necessary isn't helpful?

I can think of dozens of non-combat uses and ways to escape combat with this At Will ability.

Personally I would love it if my players thought of using their abilities creatively like this. Wizards can get similar uses out of their cantrips - Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation and mage hand can be used in a million ways out of combat.

 

[Kzach]

How exactly do my examples circumvent any rules? Either the PC shapechanges into a rat, or he doesn't.

First you say it's broken and overpowered and then you say none of your examples circumvent any rules.

Either it's broken or it's not.

But part of my issue with themes is one of balance. I see a lot of imbalance in many of the themes and have a bit of an issue with handing out the equivalent of free magic spells via themes. In Champions, x-ray vision and time travel and viewing into the future or past, and other types of powers are cautioned against because they can unravel the mystery of the DM's story. I see an At Will power where a PC can change into a rat and infiltrate basically undetected into many scenarios as potentially unraveling the mysteries that I put into my game.

You're comparing x-ray vision, time travel, and precognition to being a rat...

...I can think of a ten ways in which to neutralise all the things you brought up about the rat form being overpowered just off the top of my head. Another person has imaginatively offered suggestions on how to limit the power of it or challenge the player, and you dismissed his input. If you're not interested in the answer, then why ask the question?

 

[Kzach]

Ok, so I have a question.

People have commented about the lack of maps in the book. I'm wondering, with the major changes to the environs of the city proper, are there no maps of the actual city?

If so, then I'd have to agree, that's pretty poor. No-one can go back and use old maps of the city and reworking an entire city map is a huge ask even for people with a lot of spare time and the creative capability to pull it off.

 

[Mouseferatu]

There is, indeed, a map of the city in the book.

 

[Kzach]

There is, indeed, a map of the city in the book.

Sheesh, then what are people whining about? It's a book about the city of Neverwinter and it has a map of the city of Neverwinter in it

 

[Matt James]

That's the million copper question. :/

 

[Argyle King]

eh... if I could return it, I would.

It's the first 4E book I've purchased in a long time, and I'm unsure if I made the right choice by picking it up.

The alternate racial abilities are somewhat cool, but they present some interesting thoughts such as 'can I have the sun elf alternate features and take the moon elf feats which were previously presented in earlier material?' Still, I do like the idea of alternative racial features.

Though, another downside I see is that we'll potentially see that design concept spammed in a similar manner to alternate class features. Eventually there's a way for every class and and every race to mimic any role, and we wind up the same place where I started to get fed up with 3rd Edition. There was a point where it seemed as though classes and races in 3rd Edition had lost a lot of their feel to the overwhelming multitude of mechanical options and back roads. Then what? I have both the issues with 4th Edition I don't care for *and* the old 3rd Edition issues I wanted to get away from.

Bladesinger... well, I'm not sure. Depending on your build, it seems like it could either be total crap or full of cheese.

I think a lot of the fluff is very good. However, there are a lot of things in the book which make me feel I'm no longer part of the target audience for D&D.

On a side note: am I the only person who finds the Essentials format more difficult? I like the new monster layout in the newer monster books; that I like. However, the new way of presenting player options such as classes and feats leaves a lot to be desired. I had a much easier time finding the information I wanted in the early 4E books and understanding the information presented in the original 4E format.

 

[S'mon]

Sheesh, then what are people whining about? It's a book about the city of Neverwinter and it has a map of the city of Neverwinter in it

It has a big section on Helm's Hold. No map of Helm's Hold.

Much worse, it has a big section on the Shadowfell & part of Thay threatened by Netheril. There's a map of Evernight in the Shadowfell, though nothing for the shadow road to Thay. And, incredibly, no map for the Thay area described in the book.

But hey, you've decided to defend to the death a book you've not even looked through, so I know anything I say will have zero impact.