D&D 5E RAW: Spell attack rolls modifiers stack?

[WilliamCQ]

Do spell attack rolls modifiers stack (ie: dual-weilding Rod of the Pact Keeper & Staff of Power) ? It's important for answers to be Rules as Written (RAW).

 

[jaelis]

Yes, bonuses always stack unless they come from things with the same name. So two pact rods would not stack but the rod and staff will.

 

[cbwjm]

Do as you wish but all I can say is that I'd treat these bonuses the same as a regular weapon bonus. Holding two +1 short swords doesn't give you a total +2 to hit, it gives you a +1 to hit with each. Each time you cast an attack spell you'd have to choose whether to use the rod's bonus of the staff's bonus.

 

[CapnZapp]

Do as you wish but all I can say is that I'd treat these bonuses the same as a regular weapon bonus. Holding two +1 short swords doesn't give you a total +2 to hit, it gives you a +1 to hit with each. Each time you cast an attack spell you'd have to choose whether to use the rod's bonus of the staff's bonus.

Sure, yes, IF you treat a rod like a weapon, the logic about two short swords holds... but there's nothing inherent to a rod (or wand, or book, etc) that says you need to "wield" it, only hold it.

For many people magic implements works differently than weapons.


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[cbwjm]

Sure, yes, IF you treat a rod like a weapon, the logic about two short swords holds... but there's nothing inherent to a rod (or wand, or book, etc) that says you need to "wield" it, only hold it.

For many people magic implements works differently than weapons.


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Well like I said, they can do as they wish but I would never allow two different items to stack a bonus to spell attack rolls. They are essentially two separate foci, you can use one or the other but you can't duel wield them for twice the bonus. If you want to rule differently then go for it but personally that won't fly in my games.

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[ArchfiendBobbie]

Sure, yes, IF you treat a rod like a weapon, the logic about two short swords holds... but there's nothing inherent to a rod (or wand, or book, etc) that says you need to "wield" it, only hold it.

For many people magic implements works differently than weapons.


Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

My group was forced to rule that you wield magical implements because one of the wizards, who may or may not have been me, took a cue from Harry Dresden and was unafraid to use them as melee weapons.

So, I would think it depends on if the rod is only used for magical purposes, or if it's used as a club as well.

 

[Ganymede81]

The RAW answer here is actually pretty muddy as the effects in question, the bonuses to spell attack rolls, do not have proper names. The items themselves have proper names, but the items and their sundry effects are not one in the same.

Just make a ruling.

 

[Phazonfish]

Well like I said, they can do as they wish but I would never allow two different items to stack a bonus to spell attack rolls. They are essentially two separate foci[/url]

The descriptions for the items do not state that they need to be used as a focus for the spell, only that they must be held.

 

[pdegan2814]

Do spell attack rolls modifiers stack (ie: dual-weilding Rod of the Pact Keeper & Staff of Power) ? It's important for answers to be Rules as Written (RAW).

Yes they stack, since they aren't coming from items with the same name. You get a bonus from the Rod and a bonus from the Staff. What you can't do is stack bonuses from two Rods of the Pact Keeper. If you have two of them, you'd only get the bonus from one of them.

 

[pdegan2814]

My group was forced to rule that you wield magical implements because one of the wizards, who may or may not have been me, took a cue from Harry Dresden and was unafraid to use them as melee weapons.

So, I would think it depends on if the rod is only used for magical purposes, or if it's used as a club as well.

The Rod grants a bonus to your spell attack modifier. The description of the Staff of Power says "This staff can be wielded as a magic quarterstaff that grants a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it. While holding it, you gain a +2 bonus to Armor Clas, saving throws, and spell attack rolls." So it give an additional +2 to your spell attack rolls, on top of the bonus from the Rod. As per Crawford in 2016(https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/2...the-pact-lord-and-wand-of-the-war-mage-stack/), the bonuses from different magic items can stack. But if you're using the staff as a club, the spell attack bonuses from the Rod & Staff do not apply. What DOES apply is the property of the Staff that says it gains a +2 to attack and damage rolls. Essentially, it's a quarterstaff +2 with additional properties.

 

[Caliban]

Do as you wish but all I can say is that I'd treat these bonuses the same as a regular weapon bonus. Holding two +1 short swords doesn't give you a total +2 to hit, it gives you a +1 to hit with each. Each time you cast an attack spell you'd have to choose whether to use the rod's bonus of the staff's bonus.

This. I think RAW allows them to stack, but I have no problem house ruling that in my game, and think any sane DM should do the same.

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

It's important for answers to be Rules as Written (RAW).

No it isn't.

 

[WilliamCQ]

No it isn't.

AFAIK a thread is made on the basis that it will be centered on the title and the OP. You may create a thread with the same name w/o the prepending RAW.

 

[Ganymede81]

AFAIK a thread is made on the basis that it will be centered on the title and the OP. You may create a thread with the same name w/o the prepending RAW.

Alas, that's not how it works in practice. Consider yourself lucky you learned this lesson only 41 posts in.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

My questions are:
1. What DM is giving out both of these items in one campaign?
2. Assuming there’s a good reason for these items both being awarded in a single campaign, what party is not sharing these items between two spellcasters?

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

Alas, that's not how it works in practice. Consider yourself lucky you learned this lesson only 41 posts in.

I certainly think that threadcrapping is possible when disagreeing with the premise of a thread. For example, if someone asks for advice on how to build a fighter, then being told to play a wizard instead is pretty clearly threadcrapping. RAW discussions were common in 3e (and Caliban who already posted is probably the best RAW interpreter I ever saw). But in 5e, where "As a referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them," pointing out that OP's premise is flawed isn't threadcrapping. If WilliamCQ is asking as a player, then the DM can make a ruling regardless of RAW (and even in Adventurer League, I don't think there would be any question that this is an interpretation issue open to the DM discretion). If WilliamCQ is asking as a DM, then again, what the RAW is, while interesting, is less important than the factors in making a good decision. If WilliamCQ disagrees, he can report me and we'll let Morrus sort it out.

 

[WilliamCQ]

Perhaps next time I have a RAW question I should include something like: RAI & RAF is no help to me; it's very easy to create another thread with the same name replacing RAW by RAI & RAF.

Sarcasm doesn't always go through by text, I won't do that. However I think pointing to the most important part of the OP and saying it's invalid is flaming.

 

[cbwjm]

If you want RAW for this question then prepare to be disappointed because as far as I know there aren't any. There is something about being unable to stack the same spells but as magical items aren't spells that doesn't apply. This is a case where it is less RAW/RAI/RAF and more DM judgement.

 

[Bardbarian]

The simple version is RAW they stack because there is no RAW source that says they don't. Some DMs can customize rules as they see fit or make interpretations of rulings to fit their playstyle but there is no Raw source that covers this so there is nor reason in the books they do not stack.

 

[machineelf]

They are essentially two separate foci, you can use one or the other but you can't duel wield them for twice the bonus.

I like this answer. The player is not using both as a foci at the same time if two magical items give bonuses in magical attacks. But I think pdegan2814 nails it with his answer. They are not both given out the same kind of bonuses, it seems.