Ray of Enfeeblement versus Undead !?

[Thanee]

What do you think?

1) Does Ray of Enfeeblement work on Undead?
2) Should it work on Undead?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Yup!

Undead have no special immunity to Necromantic spells, there is no reason why it would not.

As a matter of fact, according to the spell description, the Ray would work on objects. You could technically weaken a cart and have it collapse under load.. or a bunch of other interesting uses.

I see no reason why Undead should be immune to a STR draining attack..so:
1) Yes
2) Yes

 

[Pielorinho]

Nonmoving objects have Str scores? Are you sure?

That's a great idea, but I'm not sure it works.

Daniel

 

[Egres]

As a matter of fact, according to the spell description, the Ray would work on objects. You could technically weaken a cart and have it collapse under load.. or a bunch of other interesting uses.

?!?

Then,i can't cast it on a Golem,but i can cast it on a chair?

Are you kidding?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Objects with STR...

I thought they did.. it would make sence. I mean, you have a cart. How much can is carry? The easy answer would be to give it a STR score since there are already rules for that.
I thought that objects can have the phsycial stats, but since they are not capable of self motivation its not really that big of a deal.

Not to hijack the thread, but.
If they don't have scores, what would change if they did?
You could have carts made to withstand more damage, with CON scores above 10 granting extra hps.
You could have unstable, rickety carts that may not be able to carry as much, with a relatively low STR score.
Combat from chariot could have initiative modifiers limited by the chariots DEX, allowing for a nimble chariot providing benefit in battle or clumsy carts that would be harder to fight from.

Doors could have STR scores which would be opposed checks to try to open.

Anyway.. I could not find any SRD information to support objects with physical stats, altho one could infer from the recent discussion on corpses. In that discussion it was determined that a corpse retains the physical stats...
So, if objects do have stats, that would be a house rule. In normal games Ray of Enfeeblement may target a cart, but would not do anything to it.

Alrighty then. Back to the regularly scheduled thread

 

[ARandomGod]

What do you think?

1) Does Ray of Enfeeblement work on Undead?
2) Should it work on Undead?

Bye
Thanee

Does it?
Yes
Should it?
..
...
.
....
..

I can definitely see an arguement for "no" on this one. After a lot of thought I'm going to say yes as a blanket statement, but I'll add in a possibility of house rules disallowing it for some undead. I would allow a player to make an appropriate knowledge check to see if he knows before making the casting however.


I say yes for several reasons, including the prevalence of undead in some campaign types. And, it doesn't say how, exactly enfeeblement works. ALthough it's necromancy that does not mean it's [Conjuration: Negative material], despite what some errors in printing healing spells have lead people to think (OK, so it's MY opinion that they're errors. My point remains valid even without that.) It could easily be disrupting life engergies in other ways, and since undead use necromancy in the first place, they might even be said to be particularly suseptible to this disruption. (But I wouldn't go that far either)

I mean, even skeletons move somehow. Certainly they're not using muscles, but there's still a force there that's disruptable, and that disruption likely can be made via this spell. Now, I did say I might make certain undead immune... But I'd leave that up to customization, and mainly for undead that I rule have 0 strength in the first place, yet remain mobile.

 

[Felix]

Ja, you can enfeeble undead. In their template they do not have listed under their immunities: Crackling rays of negative energy.

Sure, there's an argument for it, but according to the RAW, they can be enfeebled just like any other thing with a STR score.

Then, I can't cast it on a Golem, but I can cast it on a chair?

You can cast it on a golem... it just won't do anything.

But it won't do anything because golems are immune to spells, not because they're objects. As to wether you can cast it on objects... there might be some kind of reasoning that once you figure out the carrying capacity of the object, you have its max weight. Divide that by 3, and you have its light load carrying capacity. Look at the table in the adventuring chapter and you can find its STR score.

You might could say that, but you'd have a hard time getting that to stick.

 

[Egres]

Ja, you can enfeeble undead. In their template they do not have listed under their immunities: Crackling rays of negative energy.

Sure, there's an argument for it, but according to the RAW, they can be enfeebled just like any other thing with a STR score.


You can cast it on a golem... it just won't do anything.

But it won't do anything because golems are immune to spells, not because they're objects.

1)The "Undead" isn't a template

2)Actually,Thayan Golems are Golems,but they aren't immune to spells.

 

[mikebr99]

In their template they do not have listed under their immunities: Crackling rays of negative energy.

Doesn't most negative energy actually heal undead?


Mike

 

[Spatula]

It won't work on golems (including thayan golems) because constructs are immune to necromancy.